TELECOM Digest OnLine - Sorted: Re: Movie Studios to Sue Internet File Traders

Re: Movie Studios to Sue Internet File Traders

Robert Bonomi (
Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:50:32 +0000

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: In this next group of three messages,
Robert Bonomi contradicts me, then Danny Burstein elaborates on what
he was saying earlier (about no logs kept very long), and finally,
Lisa Minter explains what the lame duck government decided to do a
couple days ago on copyright violations. PAT[

In article <>,

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But as someone else noted in a message,
> not all ISPs keep that information around very long. Once they have
> had a chance to do what they need with it, the information is dumped.
> And if someone called in on a dialup line and hacked a real user's
> name and password then they would have nothing to go on would they?
> PAT]

Ever hear of ANI, and/or caller ID ?

Six years ago, almost all of UUnet's dial-ups had caller ID, the
capability to 'lock out' given calling numbers, and rejected calls
without caller ID info.

In greater NYC, at -that- time, they had *one* POP that couldn't do
caller ID (actually it was the telco C.O. that couldn't 'do' it). And
a _very_ persistent spammer who was using it, via large numbers of
throw-away accounts via providers that contracted with UUnet for
dial-up port access.

AT THAT TIME, they were migrating to ANI where it was available.

The big dial-up ports providers have had enough problems with fraud,
etc. that they almost all run pretty paranoid systems, with extensive
logging retained for extended periods.

Contrary to the other poster's assertation, almost all ISPs keep this
info around for moderately extended periods -- i.e. _months_, for
their *own* needs. It can easily take a month or more, for
credit-card fraud to surface, just to mention one reason. Example:
card charged at the beginning of a billing cycle. 4 weeks later is
end-of-cycle. Several days after that the charge statement is mailed.
A few days later it is delivered. *BUT* the cardholder is on vacation
for 3 weeks. You're at 60+ days from the account opening, before the
cardholder 'notices' the fraudulent charge, and challenges it. ONLY
THEN does the 'red flag' go up at the ISP, that the caller log data
may be 'needed' to identify the criminal that defrauded _them_.

In any territory where there is 'measured calling', the
_telephone_company_ has records of every call, going back
_at_least_six_months_, often longer. Even on 'unlimited calling plan'
lines. Finding the records of calls made _to_ your number is a royal
pain-in-the-ass, but it _can_ be done. Despite the public claims by
the telco's to the contrary. (Judges are _not_ amused when a subpoena
response comes back 'we do not have any such data available', and the
requesting party shows the judge that they _do_ have call-detail data
for that period available; that the 'true situation' is that is is
'inconvenient' to look for what was subpoenaed. Such a pissed-off
judge can provide a _great_deal_ of 'motivation' to a recalcitrant
phone company. *grin* )

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