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The Telecom Digest for December 17, 2010
Volume 29 : Issue 340 : "text" Format

Messages in this Issue:

Re: Question about an old scrambler phone(Thad Floryan)
Re: Question about an old scrambler phone(David Clayton)
Re: Question about an old scrambler phone(unknown)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright (John Levine)
Re: Question about an old scrambler phone(Robert Bonomi)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright (Robert Bonomi)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright (Robert Bonomi)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright (Robert Bonomi)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright (Adam H. Kerman)
Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright(jsw)
Re: History--Eight Digit US telephone numbers?(jsw)
Re: History--Eight Digit US telephone numbers?(Lisa or Jeff)


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:39:50 -0800 From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Question about an old scrambler phone Message-ID: <4D096DE6.4010907@thadlabs.com> On 12/15/2010 4:55 PM, Ernest Donlin wrote: > [...] > Now to get back on the track: is there a phone I can buy that has a > built in scrambler? I really don't care if it's an "inverter" type or > if it's the same kind that the President uses: I just want to be able > to talk to my wife without worrying about who's snooping. I haven't > got the President's budget, mind you, but we're not out to hide any > nuclear secrets from the reds, either. I don't have time to investigate any of these, but simply Googling "telephone scrambler builtin" (without the quotes) finds some 30,400+ hits. Picking one at random on the first page of hits: http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/phonescrambler-voiceencryption.html (dead link changed - Moderator) and there's a lot of interesting products. Seems most such devices are external and not explicitly builtin to phones. Couldn't find the pricing for many of the products, but a portable telephone voice scrambler is listed at US$299. All the products seem to be only for landlines. Browsing another site of "spy stuff" http://www.force-ten.com/ was most interesting but I didn't see any phone scramblers there. Their UV LED flashlights really got my attention, though. :-) But, I wonder: am I misremembering the fact that cellphone transmissions are already scrambled for security? ***** Moderator's Note ***** Cell phones aren't "scrambled": they just use transmission methods that ordinary receivers can't pick up. CDMA is a form of spread-spectrum, TDMA is "Slotted Aloha", etc. It's Security Through Obscurity, but anyone with a cellular maintenance terminal can listen in to any call within range. Bill Horne Moderator
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:08:50 +1100 From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Question about an old scrambler phone Message-ID: <pan.2010.12.16.21.08.49.583922@myrealbox.com> ......... > ***** Moderator's Note ***** > > Cell phones aren't "scrambled": they just use transmission methods that > ordinary receivers can't pick up. CDMA is a form of spread-spectrum, TDMA > is "Slotted Aloha", etc. > > It's Security Through Obscurity, but anyone with a cellular maintenance > terminal can listen in to any call within range. > Whoa.... all GSM air traffic is highly encrypted - you cannot get much more "scrambled" than that! -- Regards, David. David Clayton Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a measure of how many questions you have.
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:08:29 -0500 From: Ron <ron@see.below> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Question about an old scrambler phone Message-ID: <k7hlg6hj59naodk4p6shkou2k5haa4u6rr@4ax.com> David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com> wrote: >Whoa.... all GSM air traffic is highly encrypted - you cannot get much >more "scrambled" than that! You call it "highly encrypted". I call it "probably better than no encryption at all". GSM has been cracked a while back. Your security under GSM is usually that nobody cares to hear your calls. If they do care, it's certainly doable. Sample cite (from 2009!): http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/gsm_cracked_falls_german_engineer -- Ron (user telnom.for.plume in domain antichef.com)
Date: 16 Dec 2010 03:11:03 -0000 From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <20101216031103.4490.qmail@joyce.lan> >Consistent with MGK's remarks above, the Copyright Office insisted, in >conjunction with our last two copyright applications, that the Index >portion of our books were simply not copyright-able, being not >original text but mere alphabetized data. There is a US Supereme Court case known as Feist which specifically said that the facts in a white pages directory are not eligible for copyright. R's, John
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:33:25 -0600 From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Question about an old scrambler phone Message-ID: <H6Odne0N6Ybo55TQnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications> In article <20101216005532.GB7645@telecom.csail.mit.edu>, Ernest Donlin <ernest.donlin.remove-this@and-this-too.gmail.com> wrote: >On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 02:43:39PM -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote: >> Ernest Donlin <ernest.donlin.remove-this@and-this-too.gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >Now, I'm curious: is that kind of scrambling still possible? It seems >> >like it would be a neat way to keep the kids from picking up the phone >> >when I want to gab with the wife. I'm not going to build one, but I >> >wonder if there's anything I can buy online? >> >> It's possible, but it would be more effective just for you and the wife >> to learn French or even pig latin. > >I've been around the block a few times, and I'm not likely to learn >another language at my age. My wife isn't going to do that, either. I >need a way to scramble our calls, so let's just stick to that. > >> The Germans very quickly learned to decrypt voice inversion systems during >> the war, by ear. They called it "Krenkelcan" encryption because the English >> word "Telephone" sounds like "Krenkelcan" when inverted. > >Well, rootie-toot-toot for them! I don't think that's going to hold >water in this day and age - kids today can't even spell "translate", >and the only special language the younger generation seems to know is >foul language. > >Now to get back on the track: is there a phone I can buy that has a >built in scrambler? Sharper image might havee something. Also check with Mike Sandman. A quick google search on 'telephone scrambler' suggests that such are available. The low end looks to be circa $500/pair, just for the black box. Complete phones, about $1,800/pair. Ramsey Electronics has a box in kit form, at about $50 each end.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:58:41 -0600 From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <Eo2dnSVShMf8HZTQnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications> In article <daWdnQ3Uo6W7bpXQnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@ntd.net>, Michael G. Koerner <mgk920@dataex.com> wrote: >On 2010.12.15 00:16:37, David Clayton wrote: >> >http://www.theage.com.au/business/telstra-loses-directory-copyright-appeal-20101215-18xgd.html >> >> Telstra loses directory copyright appeal Lucy Battersby >> December 15, 2010 - 11:21AM >> >> Telstra has lost an appeal to keep telephone directories published by its >> subsidiary Sensis copyrighted. >> [[.. sneck ..]] > >I recall a similar court ruling here in the USA from a couple of decades ago >that cited the reason "lacks requisite originality" in denying a phone book >copyright protection appeal. The U.S. case is "Feist v. Rural Tel." 499 US 340. It applied to the content of white-pages directory listings. Sup. Ct. heard it in 1991, the case had been in the courts for years before that. >Although I am not a lawyer, I believe that the general theory in the USA is >that the facts in a database cannot by copyright protected, only the manner >and format of their presentation can be. For example, the layout of the >streets and highways in your area is not copyright protectable, but a map that >you draw to describe them is. Same thing with the listings in a phone book. Under U.S. copyright law, 'facts of nature' are not copyrightable. For a thing to be copyrightable, it must embody a degree of 'creative effort'. That 'creativity' is what is protected. Since 'facts' are -not- created, they fail the creativity requirement. <grin> Thus, "facts" are not copyrightable. *mechanical* orderings -- e.g. 'alphabetical', do not involve creative effort, and are, thus, not copyrightable. A "selective' compilation of facts, may qualify for a compilation copyright, where the necessary 'creativity' is in the selection of which facts to include, and which to exclude. The layout of individual "yellow pages" display ads is clearly copyrightable content. Ditto for the overall layout of the display ads on the pages. (this being the arrangement of the 'blocks' of various shapes/sizes, w/o regard to the content thereof.) the individual, minimal, "line-item listings", are "iffy" at best. The set of categories uses, although -not- individual category names, would show the requisite 'creativity' for copyright protection. "Who is listed in what category" probably also fails the 'creativity' test, the producer of the book is not 'selecting' who is included. Anyone/everyone who pays the requisite fee is 'automatically' included. And the advertiser, not the publisher, is the party who 'selects' which category/categories they wish to be included in. Hence the publisher is not exercising any protectable creativity in that regard.
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:00:36 -0600 From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <Eo2dnSRShMdJHZTQnZ2dnUVZ_ukAAAAA@posted.nuvoxcommunications> In article <op.vnrrh1zaitl47o@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp <tPlOvUpBErLeLsEs@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:56:06 -0500, Michael G. Koerner <mgk920@dataex.com> >wrote: > >> Although I am not a lawyer, I believe that the general theory in the >> USA is that the facts in a database cannot by copyright protected, >> only the manner and format of their presentation can be. For >> example, the layout of the streets and highways in your area is not >> copyright protectable, but a map that you draw to describe them is. >> Same thing with the listings in a phone book. > >Consistent with MGK's remarks above, the Copyright Office insisted, in >conjunction with our last two copyright applications, that the Index >portion of our books were simply not copyright-able, being not >original text but mere alphabetized data. That is very arguable. There is significant 'creative effort' -- the 'protectable' quality -- in the selection of what to index and what not to.
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:40:48 -0600 From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <rMOdnTatRMftKZTQnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications> In article <iebfm3$1t7$5@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote: >Michael G. Koerner <mgk920@dataex.com> wrote: > >>>http://www.theage.com.au/business/telstra-loses-directory-copyright-appeal-20101215-18xgd.html > >>>Telstra loses directory copyright appeal Lucy Battersby >>>December 15, 2010 - 11:21AM > >>>Telstra has lost an appeal to keep telephone directories published by its >>>subsidiary Sensis copyrighted. . . . > >>>In February, Justice Michelle Gordon decided the Yellow Pages and White >>>Pages directories were not protected by copyright laws because they were >>>not an "independent intellectual effort" and the work of computers rather >>>than authors. . . . > >>I recall a similar court ruling here in the USA from a couple of decades ago >>that cited the reason "lacks requisite originality" in denying a phone book >>copyright protection appeal. > >This court decision is unlike the US decision. I've never heard of a court >ruling that classification of listings as in yellow pages isn't a >copyrightable activity. The particular collection of classifications offered is a 'creative work', to which copyright would apply. The telco cannot claim copyright on "which classification(s)" a given listing appears in, because it is not their 'creative effort' that is involved. The category (or categories, if the customer wants to pay extra for the additional listings) is chosen by the customer, not the telco. An ad sales rep may make suggestions, but the final determination is made by the customer. At most, telco can --arguably-- claim a 'compilation copyright' on the yellow pages, as a whole. For display ads, copyright on the ad content belongs to the telco customer. the minimal 'line item listings' are not copyrightable in and of themselves, they are mere 'facts', without the required 'creative effort'. One cannot argue that the telco exercises 'creative effort' in selecting who is listed in the yellow pages -- anybody who pays for a listing is listed. That's mechanical, not creative. ***** Moderator's Note ***** So, if the customer chooses the category, how did a Funeral Director wind up listed under "Frozen Meat"? Or, was that an urban legend? Bill Horne Moderator
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:23:05 +0000 (UTC) From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <iedvvp$pe3$2@news.albasani.net> Robert Bonomi <bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com> wrote: >Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote: >>Michael G. Koerner <mgk920@dataex.com> wrote: >>>>http://www.theage.com.au/business/telstra-loses-directory-copyright-appeal-20101215-18xgd.html >>>>Telstra loses directory copyright appeal Lucy Battersby >>>>December 15, 2010 - 11:21AM >>>>Telstra has lost an appeal to keep telephone directories published by its >>>>subsidiary Sensis copyrighted. . . . >>>>In February, Justice Michelle Gordon decided the Yellow Pages and White >>>>Pages directories were not protected by copyright laws because they were >>>>not an "independent intellectual effort" and the work of computers rather >>>>than authors. . . . >>>I recall a similar court ruling here in the USA from a couple of decades ago >>>that cited the reason "lacks requisite originality" in denying a phone book >>>copyright protection appeal. >>This court decision is unlike the US decision. I've never heard of a court >>ruling that classification of listings as in yellow pages isn't a >>copyrightable activity. >The particular collection of classifications offered is a 'creative work', >to which copyright would apply. >The telco cannot claim copyright on "which classification(s)" a given listing >appears in, because it is not their 'creative effort' that is involved. The >category (or categories, if the customer wants to pay extra for the additional >listings) is chosen by the customer, not the telco. An ad sales rep may make >suggestions, but the final determination is made by the customer. . . . A lot of business telephone subscribers are unaware that they may request their own yellow pages classification, so classification is performed for any business telephone subscriber who doesn't request it. That sounds like copyrightable editing to me. In any event, the advertising directory publisher has to decide what classified headings to offer. Typically the telephone subscriber who self selects would do so from appropriate headings, unless he makes a successful argument that no existing heading adequately describes his business, although in that case, one questions if any of that business's prospective customers would use the yellow pages to find him.
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:29:04 -0600 (CST) From: jsw <jsw@ivgate.omahug.org> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: Australian phone book content not protected by copyright Message-ID: <201012161429.oBGET493082612@ivgate.omahug.org> I think I told this tale once before to this group, but ... Back years ago, decades ago, actually, my dad was one of the principals of a small publishing company which, among other things, produced 'alternative' phone directories for various small communities. Think of three states which begin with 'I' and have a lot of mom-n-pop indie ILECs. ;-) For a number of years, this was very lucrative. They undersold TPC for display ads and absolutely deluged the towns with books in the days that TPC was limiting the number of directories they distributed. Back then the law said that TPC, at least here in the States, had a valid copyright on the Phone Book<tm> including the residential listings, and it was well known that TPC used 'ringers' or copyright traps to enforce this. They admittedly used the official Phone Book as the source of their residential listings. So how did they deal with the ringers ?? I'm glad you asked. ;-) They would hire a couple of little old ladies who 'knew everyone' who could quite easily pick out the ringers. They were very prolific at identifying names that simply did not exist in the community. Instead of hunting down things such as listings at vacant lots, streets that did not exist, and residential numbers at TPC's address, they simply knew who resided in said town and which listings were fictitious. IIRC, they were never caught by TPC for using their listing. In once case I remember, the incumbent mom-n-pop TPC actually hired them to do their official Phone Book. This was long before the term 'outsourcing' was in vogue. ;-)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:51:48 -0600 (CST) From: jsw <jsw@ivgate.omahug.org> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: History--Eight Digit US telephone numbers? Message-ID: <201012161551.oBGFpmDo085220@ivgate.omahug.org> >Several ads in the NYT in 1947 had HOllis 5-10nnn numbers (HOllis 5- >was in Queens, NY). I know that there's anecdotal evidence that suggests that some panel offices did indeed have over 10,000 lines. However (comma) ... Wow {dusting off very rusty memory cells}, I actually knew this CO back in the years when I was more of a phone 'enthusiast'. ;-) I'm trying to think back, and IIRC this (465) was panel in the early 70s, which would imply that it was converted from manual to dial (panel) prior to WWII. My impression of the age of the building was that it was definitely pre-war. LOL, I could even drive you to where it was at the time. ;-) It could have been a #5 crossbar, making it possible that it was still manual in 1947. I do know that Chicago had some manual service into the mid 1950s, as did Omaha, home of Ma Bell's first full-scale panel deployment. See my final conclusion below ... I was far more familiar with the Floral Park office, not too far east of the Hollis office, which was at the time a #5 crossbar, to which I've referred here in the Digest on occasion. This was unique in that it served both 212 and 516 prefixes at the time. But back to the subject ... >So, would anyone know if eight digits were actually dialable in New >York City or in other places, as the literature suggests? If so, how >long did it last? (Now I'm REALLY dusting off the memory cells, remembering the architecture of panel ...) While it could be argued that simply adding a 21st. final frame to a panel office would expand the capacity to 10,500 lines, I'm having a difficult time figuring out how it could be shoehorned into the set-up of the incoming frame, and addressed by the revertive pulsing, which was very much hard-coded into the selection of one in 10,000 lines. There were two revertive-pulse operations associated with the incoming frame, which selected the final frame. The first was a one-in-five selection which selected the brush to be used or 'tripped', and the second was a one-in-four group selection which selected one out of 20 final frames for a full office. IIRC that second one-in-four was via a commutator which had rather distant spacing. If you listened to the cadence of the pulses coming back from a distant panel office, the very first was rapid, and the second was quite a bit slower. A vacant connection to the final frame in question was then selected within that group. In order to add a 21st. final frame, that group selection would need to be a one-in-five, which implies that a fifth group would need to be added to all banks of the incoming frame with a modified commutator and quite a bit of wastage in the process. I think maybe what happened is more along this line, which is purely speculation on my part since I wasn't even aware of any 8 digit local numbers until long after I knew how a panel office worked. My guess is that new 'machine switched' offices were installed with 10,000 lines and converted manual offices were truncated or renumbered to 10,000 lines. However, I think that some of the legacy 8 digit numbers may have been dialable via the Panel Call Indicator on the B board of the legacy manual office. I don't remember many of the details of PCI, but I do know that it was quite versitile and used for things other than just an indication to a B operator. I'm sure it would be possible for a register-sender in an early panel office to be provisioned to accept an eighth digit, with timeout in ambiguity cases, using simple relay logic. >I presume as preparations for DDD came along the >eight digit subscribers got new numbers. My guess is that when manual offices were converted to that newfangled machine switching, the numbers above 9999 were retired. Your citation of 1947 listings of 8 digit numbers does imply that they were dialable, since there was a LOT of panel in service in those days and the post-war deployment of the #1 crossbar was replacing the remaining manual offices. I doubt very seriously that a dial subscriber had to go out of procedure and dial 0 Operator to be connected to those few 8 digit numbers. ;-) My final conclusion is that HO5 (465 or legacy HOLlis) was most likely still manual in 1947, soon to be converted to crossbar, and that during the phase-in of dial, but prior to DDD, yes, some 8 digit local numbers were indeed dialable. Anyone care to refute (refudiate?) this ?? ;-)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:17:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa or Jeff <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: History--Eight Digit US telephone numbers? Message-ID: <dd265a31-0ca6-4c80-99b0-c1d3f8c75768@y3g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> On Dec 16, 10:51 am, jsw <j...@ivgate.omahug.org> wrote: > I'm trying to think back, and IIRC this (465) was panel in the > early 70s, which would imply that it was converted from manual > to dial (panel) prior to WWII. My impression of the age of the > building was that it was definitely pre-war.  LOL, I could even > drive you to where it was at the time.  ;-) It could have been > a #5 crossbar, making it possible that it was still manual in > 1947. I do know that Chicago had some manual service into the > mid 1950s, as did Omaha, home of Ma Bell's first full-scale > panel deployment. I understand that two large suburban exchanges in the Phila Metro area didn't go dial until circa 1962 (FLanders in Upper Darby and Willow Grove). What puzzles me is that FLanders was apparently dialable using call indicators, but Willow Grove was not dialable and required an operator to connect the call. A 1959 Phila White Pages did not have any dialing instructions, to my surprise. Converting a manual to dial office was extremely expensive and time consuming. It took a number of years just to convert Manhattan, and then longer for the outer boroughs. Further, some outer boroughs weren't even developed until the postwar era. The postwar era saw tremendous growth in the demand for phone service. The Korean war and Cold War diverted telephone equipment. I saw a postwar photo of a suburban Phila exchange (Ambler, PA) where additional switchboard positions were clearly shoe-horned in a building--one position was squeezed at an angle in a corner as part of the multiple. The neighborhood served by the HOllis exchange had postwar growth, perhaps they had to squeeze in eight digit numbers as a temporary expedient. I've heard the New York Public Library has old phone books going back years. If they have one for Queens it may explain this. The Bell Labs history notes that a new panel exchange was installed in the NYC area around 1950. This is surprising. Presumably they wanted compatibility with other equipment rather than using a No. 1 crossbar. Also they said new pieces of panel were added for many years. > I was far more familiar with the Floral Park office, not too > far east of the Hollis office, which was at the time a #5 > crossbar, to which I've referred here in the Digest on occasion. > This was unique in that it served both 212 and 516 prefixes at > the time.  But back to the subject ... In Phila, there were two city offices that served the nearby adjacent suburbs (ESsex in Cheltenham was served out a lower NE Phila office, and MElrose in Melrose Park was served out of the WAVerly office). What was curious is that calls to and from those suburban exchanges were billed at the suburban message unit rate even though they came out of a city office. That is, someone in downtown Phila calling the lower NE would be charged as a city call, but calling Cheltenham meant message units. I think those arrangements continue to this day, though they call it "Measured Service" and they've reduced the charges from the past. > My guess is that new 'machine switched' offices were installed > with 10,000 lines and converted manual offices were truncated > or renumbered to 10,000 lines.  However, I think that some of > the legacy 8 digit numbers may have been dialable via the > Panel Call Indicator on the B board of the legacy manual office. I'm starting to wonder if the HOllis-5 office was manual. Did panel switchgear store the entire phone number before acting on it, or did it translate the exchange and then route the rest of the dial pulses to the desired exchange? I understand your point of the frames, but perhaps only the incoming storage register had to be larger. > I don't remember many of the details of PCI, but I do know that > it was quite versitile and used for things other than just an > indication to a B operator.  I'm sure it would be possible for > a register-sender in an early panel office to be provisioned to > accept an eighth digit, with timeout in ambiguity cases, using > simple relay logic. The B operator's display is shown in many articles about panel (though I don't know where there's one on the web). The display actually has capacity for nine digits: the leading 0/1 for eight digit numbers, the four numbers, and a party line suffix letter. (I suppose these could've been dialed, too.) That the display has this capacity is what makes me believe eight digits were dialable. > >I presume as preparations for DDD came along the > >eight digit subscribers got new numbers. > > My guess is that when manual offices were converted to that > newfangled machine switching, the numbers above 9999 were > retired. Agreed. In the postwar era, while many subscribers had little change to their numbers, others did. Sometimes it would get tricky--I've seen special announcements printed for a community detailing the new phone numbers. > > Your citation of 1947 listings of 8 digit numbers does imply > that they were dialable, since there was a LOT of panel in > service in those days and the post-war deployment of the #1 > crossbar was replacing the remaining manual offices.  I > doubt very seriously that a dial subscriber had to go out of > procedure and dial 0 Operator to be connected to those few > 8 digit numbers.  ;-) > > My final conclusion is that HO5 (465 or legacy HOLlis) was > most likely still manual in 1947, soon to be converted to > crossbar, and that during the phase-in of dial, but prior to > DDD, yes, some 8 digit local numbers were indeed dialable. > > Anyone care to refute (refudiate?) this ??  ;-)
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