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The Telecom Digest for April 16, 2010
Volume 29 : Issue 105 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK? (John Mayson)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Steven)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Steven)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Steven)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Thad Floryan)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (David Clayton)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Robert Bonomi)
Re: Please do not change your password (T)
Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..) (Rob Warnock)
Re: New technology could warn drivers about cell phones (Scott Dorsey)
Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK? (SVU)
Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK? (Scott Dorsey)
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===========================
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:52:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK?
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1004141949440.31616@john-maysons-macbook.local>
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010, jerry wrote:
> I was looking at replacement cellphones in the local Verizon Wireless
> store recently. On the recommended model (LG Accolade), I read on the
> box what I interpret as a warning: "This is an all digital phone.
> Digital service is not available in all areas, and when not available
> your phone will not operate or be able to make 911 calls." I observed
> to the salesdude that my current phone is a dual-mode phone, such that
> when it doesn't detect digital service, it defaults to analog service
> and works that way. What about a dual-mode phone?
>
> His response was that analog service doesn't exist any more, and "it's
> all digital." So one no longer needs a dual-mode phone. If that's
> true, then why does the box bear the warning I quoted? Well, that was
> his story, and he's sticking to it.
>
> Please enlighten me. Does the need for a dual-mode phone no longer
> exist in this country (U.S.A.)? Or does such an all-digital phone now
> do everything one needs?
Here's my guess.
Many years ago a room full of lawyers sat around a conference table and
hammered out that warning. Even though there's no technical reason to
keep the warning, the same room full of lawyers are too worried about
litigation even to consider removing it. That or it just hasn't dawned on
anyone to remove it.
John
--
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:09:14 -0700
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <hq5ovt$al2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> These are most-likely lead-iron float cells. Very poor energy
> density, but amazingly rugged and they will last a lot longer than
> ten years if you're careful. I have seen fifty-year-old lighting
> systems that still met original specs.
> Float cells are still available for telco applications and emergency
> lighting systems, but you don't want to know what they cost.
I* still do have access to them, Verizon still changes the batteries
every 2 years now, they are sent back to supply , but I have been able
to get a couple a year, I use them for a month or so, they change them
out and keep doing that to not kill them. I still have 2 of the first
ones I got in 1984 and they appear to be in vary good condition. Each
month I force a power outage and run the batteries for a couple of
hours on the UPS, they have a 80% charge after a couple of hours, the
UPS was made to run a server and it took 3 of us to get it in place in
my den/office.
- -
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2010 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
***** Moderator's Note *****
The problem with a UPS is that it's not meant to sustain it's loads,
only to supply them temporarily until they can shut down gracefully:
if, however, the owner has not taken the time to connect the necessary
cables and install the vendor's software, then the computers which the
UPS was supposed to protect will keep going until they exhaust the UPS
batteries.
Don't ask me how I know.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:46:20 -0700
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <hq75bc$789$1@news.eternal-september.org>
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> The problem with a UPS is that it's not meant to sustain it's loads,
> only to supply them _temporarily_ until they can shut down gracefully:
> if, however, the owner has not taken the time to connect the necessary
> cables and install the vendor's software, then the computers which the
> UPS was supposed to protect will keep going until they exhaust the UPS
> batteries.
>
> Don't ask me how I know.
>
> Bill Horne
> Moderator
I agree that is what they are made for, but as I said, this UPS was
made to run a very larger server an all I have running on it are a
small Mac Powerbook and my old Apple //e which has my old BBS on it;
the BBS is down, but I have been working on some Apple software; there
is a lot of interest in this old computer again. I have the software
that will start shutting down the computer, at least the PowerBook.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2010 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'd like to find a way to have multiple machines "chained" from the
same UPS, so that e.g. my Linux server could act on the "Power Fail"
message from the UPS, and then cause the other machines on that UPS to
also shut down.
Kudos on the Apple IIe; maybe you can talk Ward Christenson into
bringing CBBS up again. Seriously, though, I think you're right about
there being more interest in BBS and similar software: as the Internet
matures, its users will be looking for less global info and more local
activity, so (no matter the vehicle) sites that serve smaller
autdiences will make a comeback.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:30:55 -0700
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <hq7phi$m6m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Steven wrote:
>> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>>
>> The problem with a UPS is that it's not meant to sustain it's loads,
>> only to supply them _temporarily_ until they can shut down gracefully:
>> if, however, the owner has not taken the time to connect the necessary
>> cables and install the vendor's software, then the computers which the
>> UPS was supposed to protect will keep going until they exhaust the UPS
>> batteries.
>>
>> Don't ask me how I know.
>>
>> Bill Horne
>> Moderator
>
> I agree that is what they are made for, but as I said, this UPS was
> made to run a very larger server an all I have running on it are a
> small Mac Powerbook and my old Apple //e which has my old BBS on it;
> the BBS is down, but I have been working on some Apple software; there
> is a lot of interest in this old computer again. I have the software
> that will start shutting down the computer, at least the PowerBook.
>
I started running the BBS in 1986 and only took it down in 2004. At
that time we had UUP newsgroups, network e-mail, and being able to send
files;between 10 other Apple II BBS's around the US. I have been doing
updates to the software to fix the 2000 date problem, that is now done
and a way to network it to the Internet, that will take moving it to a
Apple IIgs or linking it via a doors program on a Mac. I had several
months to work on it, but I'm now doing work again and Verizon and
AT&T is keeping contractors busy, so any work will have to wait until
the end of this year.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2010 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:25:23 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <4BC7AE73.3050908@thadlabs.com>
>> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>>
>> The problem with a UPS is that it's not meant to sustain it's loads,
>> only to supply them _temporarily_ until they can shut down gracefully:
>> if, however, the owner has not taken the time to connect the necessary
>> cables and install the vendor's software, then the computers which the
>> UPS was supposed to protect will keep going until they exhaust the UPS
>> batteries.
>>
>> Don't ask me how I know.
>>
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> I'd like to find a way to have multiple machines "chained" from the
> same UPS, so that e.g. my Linux server could act on the "Power Fail"
> message from the UPS, and then cause the other machines on that UPS to
> also shut down.
> [...]
About the only viable solution is SNMP.
Googling ``snmp ups software'' finds:
http://www.apcupsd.com/
and
http://exchange.nagios.org/directory/Plugins/Uncategorized/Software/SNMP
among others; the above two look useful.
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:13:57 +1000
From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <pan.2010.04.15.22.13.54.818949@myrealbox.com>
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:46:20 -0700, Steven wrote:
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> I'd like to find a way to have multiple machines "chained" from the
> same UPS, so that e.g. my Linux server could act on the "Power Fail"
> message from the UPS, and then cause the other machines on that UPS to
> also shut down.
I used Powerware UPS's previously and the software they provide does this.
One machine has the direct control cable connection to the UPS (the
"Master") and other devices plugged into the UPS have software that uses a
LAN connection for control, so when the power drops the Master sends a
signal to the others to shut down.
You need your LAN infrastructure that all these devices use on a UPS as
well!
--
Regards, David.
David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:58:06 -0500
From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <Pb-dndgXcpGTNVrWnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>
In article <hq75bc$789$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
>***** Moderator's Note *****
>
>I'd like to find a way to have multiple machines "chained" from the
>same UPS, so that e.g. my Linux server could act on the "Power Fail"
>message from the UPS, and then cause the other machines on that UPS to
>_also_ shut down.
This is generally TRIVIAL to do.
UPS monitoring software for UNIX-type boxes generally runs a shell script
when the power-fail is detected and/or when it it time to shut down.
postulating the other machines are on the LAN, it is trivial to have the
LINUX box send a shut-down directive to those other machines. For unixeqsue
boxes, it's a simple matter or logging in and running a shutdown script.
Numerous ways to do this, one of the easiest is the freeware comms program
KERMIT, which can make a fully scripted telnet connection, and do the deed.
For Windows boxes, see the freeware tool 'poweroff.exe'. A Unix box can
easily tell a poweroff-equipped windows box to power down. (Not just "shut
down", but 'hibernate', so nothing is lost on a power-fail.)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:04:46 -0400
From: T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Please do not change your password
Message-ID: <MPG.26303e4ab8ecf93d989ccd@news.eternal-september.org>
In article <MPG.262e8f26c7d9c877989cc8@news.eternal-september.org>,
kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net says...
>
> In article
> <xPCdnVLvvpCZyl7WnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>,
> bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com says...
> >
> > In article <4BC29BD6.5080402@thadlabs.com>,
> > Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> wrote:
> > >On 4/11/2010 7:48 PM, Monty Solomon wrote:
> > >> Please do not change your password
> > >> You were right: It's a waste of your time. A study says much computer
> > >> security advice is not worth following.
> > >> [...]
> > >
> > >One can legitimately argue some passwords SHOULD be changed.
> > >
> > >As a good example of which, consider these cracked passwords which
> > >can be seen in the bottom page margin on page 40 of the April 2010
> > >hardcopy issue of WIRED:
> > >
> > > Paris Hilton: TINKERBELL
> > > SARAH PALIN: WASILLA HIGH
> > > MILEY CYRUS: LOC092
> > > SALMA HAYEK: FRIDA
> > >LINDSAY LOHAN: 1234
> >
> >
> > Then there is the classical 'good' password:
> >
> > MickeyMinniePlutoHueyLouieDeweyDonaldGoofySacramento
> >
> >
> > Purportedly used by a blonde, as in "Helloooo -- they said it had to be
> > eight characters and a capital!"
> >
> >
> > ***** Moderator's Note *****
> >
> > I'm sure that the poster's remark is not made with any malice toward
> > any particular person with light colored hair.
>
> Or LEETize it. Tinkerbell would become 7iNk3rbE1l
>
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> Bad idea! "Leet" speak is a well-known variant of American English,
> and therefore subject to dictionary attack.
Perhaps but if one mixes in symbols it makes it that much harder:
E.g. 7 _iN!k3rbE1L:
***** Moderator's Note *****
So long as the English equivalent is known or easily guessed, you
lose. All major-league "dictionary" password-guessing program include
such varients, and numbers before and/or after the commonly-used
passwords. Using "Leet speak" or other "Pig Latin" substitutions is
just "Security through obscurity": it stops being fun as soon as you
meet someone else that knows the code.
Good security policies are like regular exercise: by the time you
realize you should have done things differently, it's too late to act. [TM]
Bill Horne
Moderator
Moderator's Note Copyright (C) 2010 E. William Horne. All Rights Reserved.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 05:52:44 -0500
From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: batteries (was Waiting for Verizon..)
Message-ID: <YvmdnYpq__FhclvWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>
David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com> wrote:
+---------------
| As for "no battery has had memory" etc, Duracell say all batteries do
| have this characteristic:
| http://www1.duracell.com/oem/rechargeable/Nickel/voltdep.asp
+---------------
That may be true for all *nickel*-chemistry batteries, but it is
certainly not true for all batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
How to prolong lithium-based batteries
...
A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The
battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full
discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the
battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of
memory when applying unscheduled charges.
...
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain
on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges
are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially
charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory.
(In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.)
Note: Don't be confused by the problem of so-called "digital memory" in
"smart" lithium-ion batteries:
Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterior-
ation, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as
"digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent
recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize
the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full
discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting
the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this.
If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.
We had this very same "digital memory" problem in spades at a PPoE
where we were using LIon laptop batteries to power a DRAM to create
a "non-volatile" memory to protect data in case of mains power failure.
The battery was almost never discharged at all [since power failures
are quite rare] -- and the charging circuit was unable to charge the
battery all the way to 100%[1] -- so the built-in "fuel Gauge" [readable
via the I2C bus] got less & less accurate over time. After a system had
been running continuously for several months, the built-in "fuel gauge"
would report zero charge remaining, yet if you then took the battery
out and discharged it on a lab bench with a reference load, it was indeed
fully charged (well, as charged as it ever got, see [1]) and would deliver
the expected number of amp-hours!! [That is, there was no observable
"memory effect" at all.] We finally had to change our system software
to completely ignore the built-in "fuel gauge" and instead developed
our own software model of charge remaining based on the battery voltage,
current, and temperature [all of which could be read over the I2C bus].
It wasn't perfect, but it was much better than the battery's built-in
"fuel gauge", which got horribly confused by our peculiar operating
conditions. ;-}
-Rob
[1] The particular battery we were using needed to be charge to 12.6 V
to get a 100% full charge [and thus reset the "fuel guage"], but
the system only had a +12.0 V supply. Losing that last 0.6 V cost
us nearly 30% of the rated charge, but other than that caused
no operational problems with the battery itself [except the above-
mentioned fuel gauge issue]. In fact, the battery's manufacturer
told us that only charging to 12.0 V would actually extend the life
of the battery somewhat.
Rob Warnock <rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
Date: 15 Apr 2010 09:30:54 -0400
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: New technology could warn drivers about cell phones
Message-ID: <hq74ee$rt3$1@panix2.panix.com>
In article <60b.3b61c315.38e5404b@aol.com>, <Wesrock@aol.com> wrote:
>In a message dated 3/31/2010 5:15:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
>thad@thadlabs.com writes:
>
>> Since it's obvious people continue to flout the law and phone/text
>> while driving, how about 15-30 second "shock" videos aired on
>> broadcast and cable TV at dinnertime showing the uncensored
>> aftermath of local accidents caused by phoning/texting drivers?
>> Sort of like the therapy used in Kubrick's "Clockwork Orange" though
>> it's unlikely we could hold the eyelids of home viewers open. If
>> Penn & Teller can show and say what they do during their "BS!" show,
>> such eye-opening "shock" videos of real accidents should be able to
>> be shown, too, to drive home the point [that phoning or texting
>> while driving is a dangerous and dumb thing to do].
>
>Quite a few years ago I was talking to the safety guy for our company
>and he said "shock" and gory videos are not effective. He said people
>tune them out, either pyscially or mentally and they show little
>result in improving safety.
Precisely. People are used to watching horrible violence in Hollywood movies
all the time, so horrible stuff on the screen doesn't have much effect any
longer.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: SVU <brad.houser@gmail.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK?
Message-ID: <4510afc0-14be-4f55-bb86-210e8fc9e82f@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
On Apr 13, 11:05 am, jerry <jjwo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I was looking at replacement cellphones in the local Verizon Wireless
> store recently. On the recommended model (LG Accolade), I read on the
> box what I interpret as a warning: "This is an all digital phone.
> Digital service is not available in all areas, and when not available
> your phone will not operate or be able to make 911 calls." I observed
> to the salesdude that my current phone is a dual-mode phone, such that
> when it doesn't detect digital service, it defaults to analog service
> and works that way. What about a dual-mode phone?
>
> His response was that analog service doesn't exist any more, and "it's
> all digital." So one no longer needs a dual-mode phone. If that's
> true, then why does the box bear the warning I quoted? Well, that was
> his story, and he's sticking to it.
>
> Please enlighten me. Does the need for a dual-mode phone no longer
> exist in this country (U.S.A.)? Or does such an all-digital phone now
> do everything one needs?
>
> cheers,
> jerry
First, he is right. There is no analog service in most if not all
places in the US and Canada, so dual mode (analog/digital) phones will
no longer be able to switch to analog when there is no digital
service.
Second, the statement is technically correct in that when there is no
digital service, the phone won't work. It also would not work if there
was analog service, but since no digital service now means no service
period, then the statement still holds.
They should just state the obvious: "When there is no service the
phone will not work...blah blah blah" and just leave out the digital
part.
Now there are multi-frequency digital phones that will use different
frequencies, which could be useful while roaming outside of a Verizon
area, as the carriers don't all share the same channels. If you want
maximum coverage, it may still be worthwhile to shop for one of these.
***** Moderator's Note *****
What do satellite phones cost? Is there any scenario where having one
sat phone would be cost-comparible to having a separate cell phone for
every region/country you do business in?
Bill Horne
Moderator
Date: 15 Apr 2010 14:35:56 -0400
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: All-digital cellphone - is this good? Or OK?
Message-ID: <hq7mac$mcv$1@panix2.panix.com>
jerry <jjwolf6@verizon.net> wrote:
>I was looking at replacement cellphones in the local Verizon Wireless
>store recently. On the recommended model (LG Accolade), I read on the
>box what I interpret as a warning: "This is an all digital phone.
>Digital service is not available in all areas, and when not available
>your phone will not operate or be able to make 911 calls." I observed
>to the salesdude that my current phone is a dual-mode phone, such that
>when it doesn't detect digital service, it defaults to analog service
>and works that way. What about a dual-mode phone?
AMPS service hasn't been around for several years now in the US, although
it's still available in a couple other countries. I think there is active
AMPS in Nigeria, for instance.
>His response was that analog service doesn't exist any more, and "it's
>all digital." So one no longer needs a dual-mode phone. If that's
>true, then why does the box bear the warning I quoted? Well, that was
>his story, and he's sticking to it.
These labels are added by lawyers and not engineers.
>Please enlighten me. Does the need for a dual-mode phone no longer
>exist in this country (U.S.A.)? Or does such an all-digital phone now
>do everything one needs?
I think there is still need for a dual-mode phone, but there is no
infrastructure to support it and there has not been for several years.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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End of The Telecom Digest (12 messages)
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