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Volume 28 : Issue 222 : "text" Format

Messages in this Issue:
  Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk 
  Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk    
  Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk      
  articles on decline of pay phones  
  Re: articles on decline of pay phones  
  End of a print publication 


====== 27 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ====== Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:31:18 -0400 From: Telecom digest moderator <telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom.csail.mit.edu> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk Message-ID: <20090812163118.GA688@telecom.csail.mit.edu> This is an unusual question, so please bear with me. Once of the readers has asked for help interfacing a "Local Battery/Local Magneto" PBX with the PSTN, and I'm trying to think "outside the cubicle", and come up with a solution that doesn't require spending a lot of money. Here's the situation: there's a rustic vacation setting in VZ territory, where every cabin has an honest-to-god wall phone with a magneto crank on the side and a battery in it to power the microphone. Yes, pretty much every image of Ma & Pa Kettle applies. The cabins are connected to a central cord board, which is, literally, the telephone exchange for every building on the property, and which _also_ has a magneto and batteries for the operator's headset: just imagine a 555 board with a magneto on the side (in fact, that used to be an option for 555 boards). The cabins signal the operator with the magneto, by cranking the handle when they want to talk to another cabin or the office, the restaurant, etc. The operator does the same for calls between the cabins (or restaurant, etc.), i.e., (s)he cranks the magneto on the switchboard to ring the phone at the destination. After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings off", i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the operator's console, so that the operator knows it's time to disconnect. Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so they are determined to keep the existing equipment. Ergo, I have these questions, and I'd like to hear from Central Office technicians and engineers. 1. Are central office dial tone circuits capable of accepting ring signals from a magneto PBX? In other words, if the PBX in question is attached to a dial tone "trunk", and the operator cranks the magneto, is the CO capable of connecting the call to a Verizon operator? (I know this *can* be done, because I once accidentally cranked a magneto on a surplus field phone that was connected to a dial tone line, and an operator answered, but the question is if it is a regular feature of common central office equipment.) 2. Are the CO's Verizon uses capable of supporting "Ring down" trunks? Assuming that an ordinary "PBX trunk", i.e., a dial tone line, can't work on a ring-down basis, could Verizon option a circuit pack so that it can be done? I'm thinking of "manual service" lines used by paraplegics and others who can't dial a call. 3. Assuming that options 1 or 2 aren't available, what "work around" is available that would allow the 555 PBX to interface with the PSTN despite it's lack of DC supervision and the need to use ring-down signalling? Thanks for your help. -- Bill Horne Temporary Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk Message-ID: <24140264-c2f6-4a44-b63f-f21febae9fe3@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On Aug 12, 12:40 pm, Telecom digest moderator <telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-t...@and-this- too.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote: > After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings off", > i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the operator's > console, so that the operator knows it's time to disconnect. A common problem in magneto systems was that subscribers forgot to ring off. That's a reason telephones have hookswitches; so that when the subscriber is finished with the call and "hangs up the phone", the action cuts out the circuit. > Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but > AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in > use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel > strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins > and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so > they are determined to keep the existing equipment. Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the system is in place and in use, what kind of interface does it already have to a central office? Are these new owners or existing owners? At this point I'd like to respectfully interject an observation: I personally am big on "old time" stuff, but almost everyone else are not. To actually use a handcrank phone or even a dial phone might be interesting--once--but not after that. I can't help but suspect a guest might enjoy making _one_ call on a crank phone, but after that find it rather tedious. > Ergo, I have these questions, and I'd like to hear from Central Office > technicians and engineers. > 2. Are the CO's Verizon uses capable of supporting "Ring down" trunks? I am not a technician, but I'd like to offer some general observations. (I am curious as to what the technical people will say.) Based on a special tariff announcements, many old legacy wiring arrangements are supported--for a price. That price probably is higher, or much higher, than to use modern technology. As an example, unattended railway stations need an emergency phone in case a passenger needs help. It is often cheaper for the carrier to simply pay the phoneco provide a standard pay phone rather than pay for a dedicated 'lift receiver' line. Certain old arrangements are no longer supported in some areas, such as party lines or 20/60 milliAmp teletype service. What is supported varies by individual C.O. I would suggest containing the Business Office Professional-Services representative at the phoneco serving the hotel. > 3. Assuming that options 1 or 2 aren't available, what "work around" >    is available that would allow the 555 PBX to interface with the >    PSTN despite it's lack of DC supervision and the need to use >    ring-down signalling? I can't help but suspect the phone company will not be interested in supported this oddball arrangement; but if they were, it would be quite pricey for a custom engineered arrangement. In situations like this often a 'black box' interface that takes the standard telco CO interface on one end and the magneto interface on the other might work out. Obviously the hotel operator will need a dial capability, be it pulse or Touch Tone. But I would question the need for the hotel operator to require magneto signalling to the C.O. Switchboards did handle both types of signalling and acted as an interface between the two systems. I don't think there's a reason that the switchboard couldn't have standard PBX trunk circuits and magneto circuits for the extensions, though the cord circuits may need modification. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:42:22 GMT From: "wdag" <wgeary@verizon.net> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk Message-ID: <yrIgm.1790$nh2.238@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message news:24140264-c2f6-4a44-b63f-f21febae9fe3@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 12, 12:40 pm, Telecom digest moderator > <telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-t...@and-this- > too.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote: > > > After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings off", > > i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the operator's > > console, so that the operator knows it's time to disconnect. > > A common problem in magneto systems was that subscribers forgot to > ring off. That's a reason telephones have hookswitches; so that when > the subscriber is finished with the call and "hangs up the phone", the > action cuts out the circuit. > And that's why manual board operators would "listen in" on "active" patches every now and then. Plus, as "automatic" CO switching became available, manual boards would have appearances of modern "common battery" trunks at board positions, with the "adapter circuitry" (including a dial) to go between the "new" CO line and the old magneto circuit(s). Are you sure this board doesn't already have such circuits (equipment) in it? > > Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but > > AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in > > use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel > > strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins > > and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so > > they are determined to keep the existing equipment. > *wonders if they also use "charming" outhouses too...* Plus, what happens when one of the guests tries to use the cranky old phones to call a modern system to, say, hear their voice messages? "Press 1 to play" isn't much use when there's no 1 to press... ***** Moderator's Note ***** The PBX in question definitely does _NOT_ have any interface capability. I'm told it's a military-surplus model, strictly local battery/local magneto. I asked if it's the same as the one Gary Burghoff used in "M*A*S*H", but it turns out to be closer to Bebe Daniels in "Chickie". I don't think they have outhouses: I think the owners at this place probably want their guests to remember how nice things looked in old movies that showed crank telephones in rural settings. As we all know, nobody ever uses a toilet in the movies ... ;-) If the guests are interested in checking their voice mail, there are regular TouchTone phones within walking distance, but there's probably little demand for them: I'm told that the guests go to this place _because_ it's free of the distractions of modern life. Bill Horne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: articles on decline of pay phones Message-ID: <7ce014db-f199-4b28-bb9a-e4334f9c750b@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> The following two articles from the Newark Star Ledger describe the decline in pay phones. They offer some counts of phones in service and removed: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/nj_cuts_back_on_pay_phones_as.html http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2009/08/hanging_up_the_pay_phone.html I wonder if some larger property owners don't realize they're paying the phoneco to provide pay phones for their property; perhaps more phones than they need. The following article describes some crime victims who couldn't call for help. (I thought there was a law that if someone asks you to call 911 for an emergency, you were required to do so.) http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2009/07/robbed_in_montclair_looking_th.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:31:22 GMT From: "wdag" <wgeary@verizon.net> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: articles on decline of pay phones Message-ID: <ehIgm.1873$Jg.970@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message news:7ce014db-f199-4b28-bb9a-e4334f9c750b@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... > > ... > > (I thought there was a law that if someone asks you to call > 911 for an emergency, you were required to do so.) The story _doesn't_ say the robbery victim asked the gas station attendant(s) to "call 911", it says they asked to _use their phone_ i.e. either come behind the bulletproof partition - where the attendant can be more easily robbed - or (more likely) be handed the attendant's cellphone - and disappear with it. Any law requiring someone to make themselves a potential crime victim is unenforceable. [Moderator snip] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:58:35 -0700 From: Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: End of a print publication Message-ID: <h5vlf3$hgj$1@news.eternal-september.org> I just go my July/August issue of Telephony. In it the editor tells everyone that this will be the last print issue after 108 year. When I starting for California Water Telephone (GTE) in 1967 I used to read my supervisors issue, and was able to lean a lot of what was happening; from what I remember is was pretty good sized with a lot of ads. Over the years and in the last few it has gotten spammer with each issue. They will continue with the on line issues and a new print wil be called Connected Planet. I have had my own issue for the last 30 years, and I think I have all of those in boxes in the garage: I have looked at older issues over the and have seen the changes, gone are the ads from Automatic Electric for step stuff and Western Electric ads. -- The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? (c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co. ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecom- munications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to Usenet, where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. The Telecom Digest is currently being moderated by Bill Horne while Pat Townson recovers from a stroke. Contact information: Bill Horne Telecom Digest 43 Deerfield Road Sharon MA 02067-2301 781-784-7287 bill at horne dot net Subscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=subscribe telecom Unsubscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=unsubscribe telecom This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm- unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then. Our archives are available for your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list on the internet in any category! URL information: http://telecom-digest.org Copyright (C) 2009 TELECOM Digest. All rights reserved. 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