Pat, the Editor

27 Years of the Digest ... founded August 21, 1981

Classified Ads
TD Extra News

Add this Digest to your personal   or  

Message Digest 
Volume 28 : Issue 149 : "text" Format

Messages in this Issue:
  Re: Texting May Be Taking a Toll 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID  & Re: [telecom] ANI   vs. Caller ID 
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Re: AT&T to discontinue CallVantage voip service 
  Re: T-Mobile glorifies vandalism? 
  Re: 1984 All Over Again? 
  Re: 1984 All Over Again? 
  Re: Payphones Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Apt buildings--where is the demarc box?  
  Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
  Melted coax (was: ANI vs. Caller ID) 

====== 27 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ====== Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 23:59:34 -0500 From: John Mayson <> To: Subject: Re: Texting May Be Taking a Toll Message-ID: <> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Monty Solomon <> wrote: > > The phenomenon is beginning to worry physicians and psychologists, who > say it is leading to anxiety, distraction in school, falling grades, > repetitive stress injury and sleep deprivation. As the father of teens I really wonder where these studies come from. Yes, they send a lot of texts. But I simply don't see any of the above symptoms. Perhaps some teenagers are already prone to such issues and texting is just the latest scapegoat? I've heard everything from video games to heavy metal lyrics to Internet usage being blamed. What will we blame five years from now? John -- John Mayson <> Austin, Texas, USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:32:07 -0500 From: (Gordon Burditt) To: Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <V_SdnXmdXOvKJLnXnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica> >But it is also true that due to the increased spoofing of caller-ID >plus failure to send anything ("111-111-1111"), subscribers will get >upset they're not getting what they've paid for. This will lead to >lost revenue as subscribers disconnect the service or disconnect the >provider altogether out of frustration. (It may not be the provider's >fault, but they'll get blamed for it just the same.) It's also >possible there could be nasty litigation against a carrier by a >subscriber or regulatory agency. Do carriers have any immunity against lawsuits for incorrect or spoofed caller-ID when their marketing department makes no mention of this? (assuming, for the moment, that they can't lay it off on some OTHER telco providing the bad information). Consider a worst-case situation, where the lawsuit is a wrongful death suit, and the one (suspected of) spoofing the caller-ID is a homicidal stalker, who only managed to get through because of spoofed caller-ID. I think a case could happen where it seems quite plausible that the telco is responsible. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 13:04:47 EDT From: To: Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <> In a message dated 6/1/2009 11:45:38 PM Central Daylight Time, writes: Given that this was a small office and there was absolutely no privacy I suspect folks wouldn't be on very long. Besides us Canadians are generally polite. <smile> -----------------------------Reply-------------------------- Given the things I heard discussed on cellphones with no regard to who's in range of hearing, it would seem privacy is not a concern for many people. Wes Leatherock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 06:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <> > ***** Moderator's Note ***** > 1. Melted coax due to concentrated solar energy, one one >    particular day of the year. I could see this happening. Every kid has taken a magnifying glass and burned holes through leaves, twigs, or paper by concentrating the sun's rays onto a spot. This is very easy to do. Sometimes the paper or leaf will burst into the flame. It's certainly possible that an minor abberation in a window glass or piece of plastic (which are very common) served as a magnifier and when the sun hit at a certain angle it was enough to burn. Now, it probably would not be strong enough to cut entirely through a cable, but strong enough to sear the insulation so as to interfere with transmission qualities. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:57:55 -0500 From: (Robert Bonomi) To: Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <U6adnYbHkoK-9bjXnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications> In article <e_adndJEDMNVkLnXnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>, Robert Bonomi <> wrote: >In article <>, >>***** Moderator's Note ***** >> >> I think the premise behind failure #1 was exactly what you mention: >> i.e., that the sun's rays were concentrated _by_ _the_ _parabolic_ >> _reflector_, and thus produced enough heat to melt the coax. > >This is unlikely, but _plausible_. I've seen stranger things in other >fields of engineering. > >> Here's another one: my brother told me that the radar set at French >> Frigate Shoals used to kill Gooney birds who alighted on the feed >> arm while it was rotating. He said that the Audubon Society got >> wind of the problem and forced the Coast Guard (which ran the LORAN >> staion located there) to install a radome. Sound possible? > >This sounds *entirely* believable. > >The energy-density off of a big transmitter' directional antenna, is >*substantial*. I was once told that military didn't run the radar on >an E-2 "Hawkeye" early-warning aircraft, never ran the radar when they >were on the ground. That _if_ they did, they would sterilize any >person outside the plane, within a 175 ft radius. I had no interest >in asking for a demonstration. <grin> > >And, of course, the energy density immediately off the end of the feed >horn, towards the antenna, makes the density reflected off the >parabolic [antenna] look **positively** anemic. :) > >***** Moderator's Note ***** > >Well, I guess it's _technically_ possible to have a Gooney bird killed >by a long-range radar transmitter, but it always sounded like the kind >of story that NCO's tell new recruits: I mean, why _would_ a Gooney >bird alight on a feed arm which is spinning, you know? The 'classical' answer to that kind of question is "it seemed like a good idea at the time. <grin> More seriously, i suspect that 'casualties' were found on the ground, or the support structure -- with an -assumption- made that they' tried to land on the feed arm, when, in fact, they'd just flown through the path of the beam and been cooked 'in flight'. Not outside the realm of possibility is that the bird flew through the path of the beam, and became somewhat disoriented, looked for an _immediate_ place to perch, and grabbed the first reasonable possibility that rotated into view. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:23:42 -0400 From: "Dr. Barry L. Ornitz" <> To: Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID & Re: [telecom] ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <5wiVl.35$Dr4.17@newsfe24.iad> "Tony Toews [MVP]" <> wrote in message > Richard <> wrote: > >> Cause: water had leaked into the waveguide and collected at a low >> point. At night the water froze, and ice is a good transmitter >> of radio waves. In the morning the ice melted, and water >> absorbed radio waves. > > Ah, that would help explain why a friend gets very good wireless > access from somewhere in his village during winter and not in > summer. I knew that leaves and such were a problem in summer. > But I always wondered how much the branches and twigs in winter > would attenuate the signal. Especially if you had a dense hedge. Just to give some numbers, at 3 GHz the dielectric constant and loss tangent of water, ice and wood are:
 Dielectric ConstantLoss Tangent
Ice (distilled water)3.20.0009
Water ( 0 degrees C)88.00.157
Water ( 20 degrees C)80.40.157
Water (100 degrees C)55.30.157
Douglas Fir (plywood)1.820.027
Wood1.2 to 2.10.03

A good paper on wood dielectric properties is: "DIELECTRIC PROPERTIES OF 
CONTENT, AND GRAIN ORIENTATION" by William James of the Department of 

<> wrote in message

> It is true many services are bundled today.  But that has always
> been the trend in many products and services, especially in
> technology.  Can one buy a black and white television set today?
> One without remote control?

Remote controls for televisions are MUCH cheaper than the complex and 
hard to install switches.  Their reliability is better than mechanical 
switches too.  But why do they make them so tasty for dogs?

73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz  WA4VZQ 


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:09:31 -0500
From: (Robert Bonomi)
Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
Message-ID: <afSdnb3MIbtG97jXnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>

In article <h01of8$56l$>,
David Lesher  <> wrote:
>One thing I'm almost ashamed to admit to.... I'm confused where
>911 reporting fits in. It's not CNID based; it's not ANI based
>[or is it?] either.

Correct,  "neither".   PSAP trunkage is a 'different animal', using it's
own signalling protocols.  Not really it's own protocols, just some differently
designated fields in some special-purpose SS7 call origination/setup packets.

Connectivity to the 911 center comes directly from the local C.O. that
the customer tail circuit is attached to.  That C.O. has knowledge of the
actual wire-pair the call is originating from, and a simple *local* (i.e,
to the carrier, not a common multi-carrier system) data-base dip will provide 
the location of the line termination.


Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 00:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Zee <>
Subject: Re: AT&T to discontinue CallVantage voip service 
Message-ID: <>

On May 2, 2:44 am, "George S Thurman" < (nospam)>
> Just rec'd a letter from AT&T saying they are going [to] discontinue
> [their]VOIPservice, known as CallVantage.  The letter was dated April
> 17, but an exact discontinuation date was not mentioned.  I have tried
> Vonage, but did not like the poor quality of some of the connections,
> although I did like some of the features it had [which] CallVantage did
> not.  I will not go back there.  Can someone recommend anotherVOIPservice?
> George "Skipper" Thurman

You may want to check out pay as you go VoIP service.
It's $2.95 monthly for the service that includes free incoming calls
and a phone number. If you want to use your previous number then
porting is free. Outgoing rate is 2.5 cents to a US number and 1.9
cents to Canadian numbers.


Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 01:00:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Zee <>
Subject: Re: T-Mobile glorifies vandalism? 
Message-ID: <>

On Apr 27, 12:53 am, Fred Goodwin <> wrote:
> Have you seen the T-Mobile commercial is which a young lady stops her
> car along a rural highway, pulls out a chain saw, and proceeds to cut
> down a telephone pole, bringing down the entire line?
> Besides the fact that the poles appear to be carrying three-phase
> power lines, and I know its just a commercial, but still: I had to
> wonder if T-Mobile couldn't have made their point about "cutting the
> cord" by having the lady cut the cord of her home phone, rather than
> vandalizing the poles of a telco or utility company.
> What's next?  Blowing up a central office?
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
> That commercial takes the classic approach to marketing: show the
> sheep something they're afraid of, and then sell them a product that
> lets them pretend they're not.
> * Men are afraid of beautiful, self-sufficient women who make their own
> * Women are afraid of power lines
> * Everyone is afraid of chain saws
> So, by extrapolation, when you sign a T-Mobile contract, you become a
> beautiful, self-sufficient electrician and lumberjack with a buzzing,
> scary blade.
> Bill Horne
> Temporary Moderator

Got any links online for this commercial? I can't seem to find it.


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:45:19 +1000
From: David Clayton <>
Subject: Re: 1984 All Over Again? 
Message-ID: <>

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:52:03 -0400, Robert Neville wrote:

> David Clayton <> wrote:
>> And speaking of Telco issues, what is the situation in the US with
>> people using VoIP and getting the dial-tone cut from their ADSL link?
>> Such things are becoming quite popular here in Australia, and the
>> incumbent land-line telco here (Telstra) is starting to take a
>> significant hit to their revenues.
> The market in the US has essentially decided that voice will be served
> as a value added bundle with fiber or coax broadband. So, VOIP over dry
> pair DSL is there, but won't be a major player.

The regulator in Australia sets the price the incumbent copper line Telco
can charge for line-only services, and this is quite competitive in
comparison to the normal service with dial-tone (about 50% less rental).
The VoIP providers here also have far lesser per-call costs, and you can
even get your existing number ported to your VoIP service.

Because of these factors, "Naked DSL" services are a big growth area here
- especially for people who may move addresses and only need a new
Internet connection to keep their existing VoIP number.

With the government now rolling out a national FTTH network the existing
copper network may be basically obsolete in about 10 years.

Regards, David.

David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:41:15 -0700
From: Steven Lichter <>
Subject: Re: 1984 All Over Again? 
Message-ID: <QbfVl.8517$>

Robert Neville wrote:
> David Clayton <> wrote:
>> And speaking of Telco issues, what is the situation in the US with
>> people using VoIP and getting the dial-tone cut from their ADSL
>> link?
>> Such things are becoming quite popular here in Australia, and the
>> incumbent land-line telco here (Telstra) is starting to take a
>> significant hit to their revenues.
> People cutting the copper line and going cell only in the US is a
> significant drain on telco revenue, with most of the major wireline
> companies reporting net line losses of 100K or more per
> quarter. That's against a huge installed base, but a far cry from the
> days when telcos were trying to find enough spare pairs for all the
> second and third lines people wanted a few years back. The telcos with
> solid wireless revenues are generally treading water, but companies
> like Qwest (with no in house cell operation) are in serious trouble.
> Residential consumer provisioned VOIP (as compared with digital voice
> from a cable company, etc.)  isn't large enough to be significant. The
> single largest company offering that service is Vonage, which reported
> only 2.6 million lines 4Q08. And that's essentially flat after a high
> churn rate. Even with all the other wannabes, there's probably less
> than 3M lines and you can bet at least half of those are riding over
> cable company coax.
> The market in the US has essentially decided that voice will be served
> as a value added bundle with fiber or coax broadband. So, VOIP over
> dry pair DSL is there, but won't be a major player.

at&t had to look over 500 pairs to find a good one to move my line too, 
all the others were either open or shorted.  I could not believe how bad 
the outside plant was until I talked to a tech.  The other day I noticed 
10 heavy gang truck a;; over the street, it looks like they are going to 
replace the cable.  The noise and crosstalk was so bad on my line it 
made my DSL useless for 2 weeks it took them to get a handle on it.  I 
finally was forced to use the WiFi that they supply in the area.

The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? 
(c) 2009  I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.


Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:28:43 GMT
From: tlvp <>
Subject: Re: Payphones Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
Message-ID: <>

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:13:42 -0400, <> wrote:

> On May 31, 7:25 am, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>> If by 'information', you mean what is now called 'directory assistance',
>> with the exception of 800-555-1212,  it is to be expected that there
>> would
>> be a payment demand for -that-.  "Everybody" charges for Directory
>> assist.
>> calls these days.  The third-party pay-phone operators (who place COCOTS
>> that _they_ own on other peoples property) are notorious for having DA,
>> like 'operator-assisted' calls handled by a contracted service of their
>> choice -- with exorbitant rates passed through to the customer.
> The other day I was surprised to see not only a public pay phone, but
> a telephone directory in the shelf underneath it.
> In the old days most pay phones had phone books with them, some simply
> free standing on a shelf underneath, many in binders attached in
> various ways, from simple chains to pull out levers.  Larger banks of
> pay phones had a shelf of several local telephone books.  Very large
> banks had many telephone books available.  Even as they switched from
> booths to kiosks they provided a shelf for the directory.
> I haven't checked lately, but I think the cost of directory assistance
> these days is $1.00; even more from a cell phone ($1.50?).  I don't
> know if 1+NPA+555-1212 works anymore or what the charge is for that,
> but local 411 often has national listings.  In some places they're
> providing, for a fee, other information too such as yellow pages
> listing, such as restaurants in an area.
> I could understand charging when a listing is in the book, but often
> times someone has a new number that isn't available.
> (Last night on the train I heard someone use their cell phone to call
> Information, I wonder what it cost.)

I've heard of -- even tested out -- free, ad-sponsored DA numbers.
Don't recall them exactly now, but they were all, IIRC, of the form:

string together, in appropriate order, one each of {800 888 877 866],
[free goog], [411]. (Yeah, of the 16 possible combos, only very few
will provide a free DA service -- sorry I don't remember which, if any.]

Or, by example:

800 free 411 (800 3733411) ; 800 411 free (800 3733411) ;
800 goog 411 (800 4664411) ; 800 411 goog (800 4114664) ; and

[There are] 12 more, with 888, 877, or 866 in lieu of 800.

Rather similar to the web URL for free DA another reader posted ;-) .

Disclaimer: I might be all wet on this ... .

Cheers, -- tlvp


Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 06:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Apt buildings--where is the demarc box?  
Message-ID: <>

In apartment, condo, and co-op multi-family buildings there is often
no individual "demarc" box for individual units.  Rather, the lines
consolidate in large junction boxes which are maintained by the
telco.  All an individual unit has is a plain phone jack.

In the event there is trouble on the line where is the 'cut off' point
to determine responsibility for repair?  To the subscriber, the cut
off point would appear to be in their own apt since they obviously
don't have (nor should have) access to the central junction box.


(Any other information about line maintenance in multi-family housing
would be appreciated.)


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:34:52 -0700
From: Steven Lichter <>
Subject: Re: ANI vs. Caller ID 
Message-ID: <x9fVl.18202$>

Tony Toews [MVP] wrote:

[Moderator snip]

> Which then leads to the exorbitant rates that hotels in city centres
> charge for local and long distance phone calls.  I wonder just how
> much revenue they are really getting given that folks who are staying
> in such almost certainly all have cell phones.

Why would you stay in Seattle when Microsoft is located in Redmond; 
across the bay, that is unless you are working in downtown.

The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? 
(c) 2009  I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:04:02 -0500
From: Neal McLain <>
Subject: Melted coax (was: ANI vs. Caller ID) 
Message-ID: <>

Temporary Moderator wrote:

 > Since you've had a lot of experience testing microwave equipment in
 > the field, I'd appreciate your help to debunk some _very_ tall
 > tales. I have heard hundreds of apocryphal stories about microwave
 > failures due to utterly unbelievable causes. The list includes:
 > 1. Melted coax due to concentrated solar energy, on one
 > particular day of the year.

I think this is a reference to "solar outage" phenomenon that occurs in 
satellite receiving antennas.

Every fixed satellite antenna is aimed at a fixed spot in the 
geostationary orbit.  Twice each year, in the spring and fall, the 
earth's revolution about the sun causes the geostationary orbit to pass 
through the ecliptic (the sun's apparent path with respect to a point on 
earth).  This transition can require several days.

During this period, once each day the sun moves directly behind the 
satellite (or, more precisely, the rotation of the earth causes the 
satellite to transit the sun). The white-noise RF energy emitted by the 
sun far exceeds the satellite signal, and simply swamps the satellite 
signal.  A received television signal will slowly fade to noise, then 
slowly come back.  The worst-case situation occurs when the satellite 
transits the center of the sun; in this case, the outage can last as 
long as ten minutes.  For several days before and after the worst-case 
day, shorter and less obtrusive outages occur.  The entire sequence of 
outages can last as long as a week.

These outages occur on different days, and at different times during the 
day, depending on the longitude of the satellite and the geographic 
location of the ground antenna.  Several websites provide "solar fade" 
calculators; here's an example:

As you can probably guess, this phenomenon is a big headache for cable 
TV companies.  As soon as the first noticeable outage occurs, the phone 
starts ringing.

A related problem is solar heating.  During a solar outage, infrared 
light reflected into the feedhorn can damage the feedhorn, and in an 
extreme case, it could damage coaxial cable connected to it.  This is 
probably the origin of the "melted coax" phenomenon that Bill mentions.

This, of course, depends on the reflectivity of the reflector.  For this 
reason, the reflector has a "matte" finish that will (hopefully) scatter 
the long-wavelength infrared light but accurately reflect the shorter 
wavelengths of the satellite signal into the feedhorn.  Flat exterior 
latex paint works well for this purpose.

But, as a certain unfortunate cable TV engineer once learned, high-gloss 
silver paint does not.

Neal McLain


TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecom-
munications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in
addition to Usenet, where it appears as the moderated newsgroup

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

The Telecom Digest is currently being moderated by Bill Horne while
Pat Townson recovers from a stroke. 

Contact information:    Bill Horne
                        Telecom Digest
                        43 Deerfield Road
                        Sharon MA 02067-2301
                        bill at horne dot net

Subscribe: telecom
Unsubscribe: telecom

This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then.  Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list
on the internet in any category!

URL information:

Copyright (C) 2008 TELECOM Digest. All rights reserved.
Our attorney is Bill Levant, of Blue Bell, PA.



Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of fifty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list. 

All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the
author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only
and messages should not be considered any official expression by the

End of The Telecom digest (15 messages)

Return to Archives**Older Issues