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The Telecom Digest for March 7, 2013
Volume 32 : Issue 58 : "text" Format
====== 31 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
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Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Bill Horne and
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We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
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we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime. - Geoffrey Welsh
See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest.
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 06:05:05 -0800
From: "Harold Hallikainen" <harold@hallikainen.org>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Smart Phones
Message-ID: <d0fe6e2bc2708d9190fea1d913e116f0.squirrel@louise.hallikainen.org>
>> (Another person on the forum) wrote:
>> The costs of smart phones are ridiculous.
>
deletia...
> Sometime last year a major news organization (I think it was ABC)
> announced that the build cost of an iPhone is US$8, which if true
> means the markup is over 98% of the inflated price.
It appears the $8 quoted is the cost of manufacturing, but does not
include the cost of parts (the Bill of Materials Cost). The cost of the
iPhone 5 is shown at
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/pages/Many-iPhone-5-Components-Change-But-Most-Suppliers-Remain-the-Same-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
A 64GB iPhone 5 has a BOM + Manufacturing cost of $238 with a
no-contract sale price of $849. The margin probably pays for
marketing, retailing, product development, and profit.
Harold
--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at
http://www.hallikainen.com
- Advertising opportunities available!
Not sent from an iPhone.
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 23:12:22 -0600
From: Frank Stearns <franks.pacifier.com@pacifier.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Re: Smart Phones
Message-ID: <_9qdnVz-ttYrvKXMnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@posted.palinacquisition>
>>> (Another person on the forum) wrote:
>>> The costs of smart phones are ridiculous.
>>
>> Sometime last year a major news organization (I think it was ABC)
>> announced that the build cost of an iPhone is US$8, which if true
>> means the markup is over 98% of the inflated price.
There is a far more important aspect than "mark up" on the price of raw materials --
are we going to allow legal free markets to flourish, with all their dynamism, or
are we going to somehow dictate "fair" prices?
It really doesn't matter whether the parts cost 80 dollars, 80 cents or even 8
cents. (And there are many, many more costs than just the parts.)
What matters is whether the market will support the asking price. Of course, there
are market distortions from government regulation, intellectual property issues,
unlawful price fixing by producers, and many other items. There are also regulated
monopolies for specific purposes.
But on balance and all things considered, prices based on market perceptions (those
prices often soon corrected by market realities) is far better than some central
authority commanding a "fair" price. We've seen how well that has (not) worked in
various places.
Laws and enforcement protecting a free-as-practical market should be the focus, not
the percentage mark-up on parts. Those figures truly mean nothing.
Frank
--
.
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:58:08 -0500
From: tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: White House: It's Time to Legalize Cellphone Unlocking
Message-ID: <1gt2ck6lpqb5z$.1xkx5ed9zq1da.dlg@40tude.net>
On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:10:21 -0500, Bill Horne wrote:
> White House: It's Time to Legalize Cellphone Unlocking
>
>
> http://allthingsd.com/20130304/white-house-its-time-to-legalize-cell-phone-unlocking/
>
My own experience with carrier cooperation as regards cell-phone-unlocking:
1) T-Mobile -- has provided me all SIM-subsidy unlock information I ever
required, without threat or duress, for each handset requested, provided
only that said handset had been in service with T-Mobile for 90 days or
more, and that at most two such requests were to be honored in any 30-day
interval. Easy enough. At least 4-5 handsets thus unlocked.
2) AT&T -- has provided me SIM-subsidy unlock information for two of the
three handsets I ever requested such for. All were Cingular-branded
handsets found in cell-phone recycling bins, two fully operable, with data
remaining identifying the phone number they had last been assigned, and one
inoperable (a 3gs iPhone), hence without accessible last phone number data.
For the first two, though I've never been on a Cingular/at&t wireless plan
in my life, the wireless CS crew happily gave me the unlock information I
needed; for the iPhone, however, they balked when I could not provide the
last known phone number under which it had been active.
[No matter, of course: as an inoperable unit, it'd have needed extensive
and expensive repairs before I could ever have used it anywhere, anyway.]
3) Non-GSM cellular providers have no SIM-unlocking issue to begin with.
And it's easy enough to get a Verizon MVNO like Page Plus to activate a
Verizon handset whose IMEI is not on Verizon's stiffed-bill-pay black-list,
and similarly (so I hear) for Sprint and Sprint MVNOs: so, non-issue here.
As always, I'm happy to stand corrected if need be :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 01:47:22 +0000 (UTC)
From: retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: White House: It's Time to Legalize Cellphone Unlocking
Message-ID: <kh8rja$dhv$2@reader1.panix.com>
In article <1gt2ck6lpqb5z$.1xkx5ed9zq1da.dlg@40tude.net>,
tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:
>
>My own experience with carrier cooperation as regards cell-phone-unlocking:
>
[snip]
>
>3) Non-GSM cellular providers have no SIM-unlocking issue to begin with.
>And it's easy enough to get a Verizon MVNO like Page Plus to activate a
>Verizon handset whose IMEI is not on Verizon's stiffed-bill-pay black-list,
>and similarly (so I hear) for Sprint and Sprint MVNOs: so, non-issue here.
Verizon cheerfully gave me the SIM subsidy codes for the GSM side of two
"world phone" Blackberry handsets that they sold to my wife.
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:01:32 -0500
From: Rich Pieri <richard.pieri@gmail.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Smart Phones
Message-ID: <51365B6E.2080406@horne.net>
On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:34:55 -0800
"Rich Braun"<richb.remove-this@and-this-too.pioneer.ci.net> wrote:
> Sometime last year a major news organization (I think it was ABC)
> announced that the build cost of an iPhone is US$8, which if true
[That report is] BS. The box and box contents (charger, headphones)
are eight bucks. Total BOM and manufacture costs for iPhone 5 ranges
from $207 to $238 according to iSuppli's analysis. iPhone 4s
BOM+manufacture costs run from $196 to $253. This is just the hardware
components. It does not include software, licensing, royalties,
advertising, shipping, and so forth.
Welcome to the modern "news reporting" where journalistic integrity
and basic fact-checking take a back seat to hype and ratings.
--
Rich P.
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:34:53 -0500
From: "Bob Goudreau" <BobGoudreau@nc.rr.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Smart Phones
Message-ID: <002901ce1a6f$62d7b980$28872c80$@nc.rr.com>
Rich Braun <richb.remove-this@and-this-too.pioneer.ci.net> wrote:
> Sometime last year a major news organization (I think it was ABC)
> announced that the build cost of an iPhone is US$8, which if true
> means the markup is over 98% of the inflated price.
Well, it's not true, so we can stop you right there. Only a modicum
of common sense should be necessary to raise one's skepticism
alarms at such a claim. It's true that Apple is very successful at
negotiating great prices from their suppliers (in part due to the
huge volume of parts they buy), but do you really believe that
Qualcomm will sell them the radio DSP or that Samsung will part
with an A6 CPU for only a couple of bucks? And then there's the
cost of the RAM, the flash memory, the Gorilla Glass, the case,
etc.
I suspect you are referring to a story like
http://gizmodo.com/5944446/the-iphone-5-costs-8-more-to-build-than-it-does-to-buy
,
which states:
"Whereas last year's 4S cost $188 in parts, plus an $8 "manufacturing"
(labor) fee, to bring to a total of $196 (for the 16GB model)-the
iPhone 5 costs $199 in parts and $207 after the manufacturing fee."
In other words, the $8 is what Apple pays to Foxconn, et. al. for
assembling the device from its component parts, not to what Apple pays
to its various suppliers for the parts themselves.
> Welcome to the modern price-gouging economy. Profiteers are finding
> ways to corner many markets and jack up prices by ensuring that
> consumers pay for things indirectly, blunting the effects of
> comparison-shopping.
If you don't like the price, you don't have to buy. Thank goodness
that in MOST of our economy, the government isn't holding a gun to
anyone's head, forcing either a customer to buy something at a certain
price or a business to sell something at a particular price. In parts
of the world where governments do such things (often in the name of
preventing "price gouging"), the result can get ugly. By dying
yesterday, Hugo Chavez managed to escape having to deal with the
consequences of the price controls his regime has dictated for items
ranging from food to appliances -- empty shelves and an inflation rate
rising almost as fast as the violent crime rate.
As for comparison shopping for phones: have you been in a phone store
in the last several years? The 2-year contract model with a subsidized
upfront initial purchase cost is almost universal for post-paid
service now, which makes it very easy to compare the carriers against
each other. If you don't want the commitment of a contract, you can
use a pay-as-go service (prepaid wireless) instead, but you have to be
prepared to buy the device up front, without a carrier subsidy. This
model is more popular in other countries than in the US, but there are
some customers here who choose it too. To continue with the iPhone
example, Straight Talk Wireless at Wal-Mart offers unlimited service
for $45/month if you buy an iPhone 5 for its full $649 cost (the same
price that an unlocked, contract-free iPhone 5 can be had for at a US
Apple store).
> If you want better/cheaper mobile phones and service, alas you have
> to escape the boundaries of the USA to get beyond the reach of
> profiteers.
Are you implying that carriers in other countries aren't out to make a
profit? And guess what, if you want to buy an iPhone 5 with no
contract (and thus no carrier subsidy), you are not going to find it
for much less than that $649 price anywhere in the world. You might
pay substantially more; that same model costs &pount;529 (GB Pounds) at
Apple stores in the UK, which works out to $801 at current exchange
ates. In Germany, it would set you back 679 euros, or $882. Of course,
there are plenty of competing smartphones out there to tempt you if
you don't want to pay for an iPhone.
Bob Goudreau
Cary, NC
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'm thinking of changing the Digest's "official" character set to UTF-8,
since ISO-8859-1 doesn't have a Euro sign. Opinions?
Bill Horne
Moderator
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:10:29 -0500
From: Fred Goldstein <invalid.see.website@ionary.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Smart Phones
Message-ID: <51374E55.7000905@ionary.com>
Rich Braun wrote,
> Sometime last year a major news organization (I think it was ABC)
> announced that the build cost of an iPhone is US$8, which if true
> means the markup is over 98% of the inflated price. Last week's Time
> magazine devoted its entire news section to a single 24,000-word
> piece about the so-called chargemaster, which is the computerized
> price list used by hospitals to compute bills.
The build cost of $8 that you refer to is simply the cost of assembling
the parts at a Chinese factory. The itemized cost of the iPhone 5 is here:
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/pages/Many-iPhone-5-Components-Change-But-Most-Suppliers-Remain-the-Same-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
(or
http://goo.gl/GXxCH
- bh)
The 16GB model has a parts cost of $199, for a total cost of $207. List
price, unsubsidized, is $649. So Apple makes a nice markup, but not
98%. Of course the 64GB model only costs $238 to build and sells for
$849, so the markup on flash is outrageous. Competitors' phones, of
course, have slots so you can add your own.
--
Fred R. Goldstein fred "at" interisle.net
Interisle Consulting Group
+1 617 795 2701
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