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Message Digest
Volume 28 : Issue 325 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Re: I'm back
Re: I'm back
AT&T U-verse
Re: I'm back
====== 28 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Message-ID: <137a5944-c96f-4b94-8bea-20a2b833f51c@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 10, 9:35 am, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
> Bill Horne <b...@horneQRM.net> wrote:
> > as humanity, and they are, after all, children - but for adults
> > to bleat about the consequences of giving such tools to children is
> > like telling kids that they shouldn't touch the firearm dad keeps
> > in the drawer next to his bed.
>
> But this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. I don't
> think it's the advance of technology that has caused these problems,
> but the conservatism brought on by the threat of lawsuits.
This is quite true. In the old days a teacher would often merely
orally reprimand a kid for a minor transgression (e.g., running in the
halls or not having a pass). Today administrators routinely slap out
detention or even expulsion punishments for small offenses. The
reason--as widely reported in the newspapers--is to cover their butts
from lawsuits from other parents.
In the 'sexting' issue, the parents who are in favor of criminal
prosecution are those whose kids have received such images; they
want the senders punished.
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:22:12 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Message-ID: <6fafc301-759b-40a4-9e93-682591dd38e9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 10, 9:39 am, sfdavidka...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
>> ... back then, lots of kids didn't have cameras at all, if they
>> did, they were quite cheap; only a rare few had good ones.
>
> Almost every kid I knew had an Instamatic. True, that if you wanted
> to develop a naked photo you couldn't just give it to
> Walgreen's. You had to know someone with a darkroom. But finding
> those people was as easy as finding someone who could sell you dope.
I respectfully have to disagree, having been involved in photography
back then.
There were of course other kids who had both the skill to develop
pictures and access to a darkroom to do it in. But they were a small
number. Further, while some kids might be quite eager to develop nude
shots, there were many others who would find it objectionable. Plenty
of kids, then and now, were not into the "wild side" of things and
wanted no part of it, being nude photography, drugs, cheating,
skipping school, pranks, or other youth activities. Also, there was
some degree of supervision to high school and club darkrooms and some
kids wouldn't want to take the risk of getting caught and kicked out.
(Further, in my day, most people with Instamatics took color pictures.
Of those kids who could develop in high school, the vast majority
could only do b&w, color processing was harder and required more
equipment.)
Which is my point--today no 'middleman' or willing associate is
needed, no special equipment is needed--nothing is needed beside the
cellphone every kid carries at all times. (Many kids might have
access to a camera, but they didn't carry it around with them.)
As mentioned before, _distribution_ today is extremely easy, simply an
email click away. Back then distributing photographic enlargements
meant a trip to the post office for the heavy envelope. How many
copies would a kid mail out? Further, back then distribution meant
another kid would have a physical picture in his/her possession, easy
enough to drop and have to explain. A cell phone image won't fall out
onto the floor of a classroom.
>> We must remember that information that once stayed hidden in the
>> bottom of a file cabinet is now easily indexed and accessed
>> remotely via computers and the Internet. To say an element of
>> information was "always out then, nothing has changed" is not at
>> all accurate; much has changed thanks to computers.
>
> But should our reaction change? I really don't think so.
Again I must respectfully disagree. Because of the ease in which
information (any information, be it nude photos or personal history)
is captured and disseminated, the rules have to change to protect
individuals' privacy.
To put it another way, in my day some kids produced underground
newspapers, it was reasonably easy to type up a stencil, get it
mimeographed, and stand on the corner and pass it out. Some of those
papers were quite shocking (by intent).
I can't help but suspect some of the producers had second thoughts
about their work when they grew older and were happy they were
forgotten. Which they would've been; it's extremely unlikely a
prospective college or employer would ever find out. But today, many
kids discover the hard way their their ancient explicit social website
or wild times has come back to haunt them.
Society has always placed safety guards on dangerous machinery.
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:11:57 -0600 (CST)
From: John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: 'Sexting' popular among teens
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0912102305290.8476@John-Maysons-iBook-G4.local>
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, David Kaye wrote:
> School administrators are ready to throw the book at students with naked
> photos on their cell phones not because the photos are any worse or any more
> available than the Polaroids of old, but because the courts have awarded
> ridiculous judgments to plaintiffs in cases involving anything that can be
> even remotely construed as "sex".
This has been the reason so many employers have zero-tolerance for
anything that even remotely reeks of "sex". All it takes is one person,
be it an employee or student, to do something stupid and suddenly the
employer or school is a "hostile environment".
> This stifling does not just apply to photos on cell phones, either.
> Parents can't just build playground equipment anymore. Local jurisdictions
> such as cities and counties can tear them down because they don't meet certain
> safety requirements and the jurisdictions are afraid of being sued. Now, to
> put up playgound equipment requires about a $20,000 investment in the "right"
> equipment that has been type-approved. No more tire swings.
Due to court rulings here in Texas it's darned near impossible to find a
pool with a diving board.
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, David Kaye wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> back then, lots of kids didn't have cameras at all, if they did,
>> they were quite cheap; only a rare few had good ones.
>
> Almost every kid I knew had an Instamatic. True, that if you wanted
> to develop a naked photo you couldn't just give it to Walgreen's. You
> had to know someone with a darkroom. But finding those people was as
> easy as finding someone who could sell you dope.
I was the most naïve kid on the planet and I knew how to get this done.
Didn't know a thing about dope, but needed something developed. What I'm
saying here is if I knew how it was probably very common knowledge in
1982.
John
--
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA
***** Moderator's Note *****
I probably matched you in naïveté, but "knowing how" and "doing" are
always different things: remember that we all "knew how" to make
babies, but very few of us actually got the chance to risk doing so
during our high school sentences.
I was a member of the photo club at my school, and I made my own
passport photos at the tender age of eighteen, so I "knew how" to run a
darkroom and mix chemicals (at least for B&W prints), but I wouldn't have
dared to recreate any racy images: we just didn't do that where I came
from. I'm no saint, you understand; the reason I wanted a passport was
a reflection of activities I both engaged in and contemplated which were
not "politically correct", then or now - but dealing in
sexually-explicit pictures just wasn't done. We could debate endlessly
on the social standards, societal value imprinting, and socioeconomic
norms that affected my actions. The end result was that we just didn't
do that.
Times, as I said, have changed, but children have not. The point I
tried to convey in my previous post on the subject is that we, as a
society, need to come to a consensus on our sexual mores and
expectations, and to convey those rules to our kids. So far, we're
laging way behind our children in dealing with this issue.
FWIW. YMMV.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:23:11 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: I'm back
Message-ID: <cd84e26d-1cc1-4ac0-9bc6-41732737f93d@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 10, 7:48 pm, Telecom digest moderator
<redac...@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> After a couple of weeks in the hospital, a dozen meetings with Doctor
> Poke N. Prune, three surgeries, and a lot of reading, I'm officially
> cured. I'm resuming my post as Moderator, and I look forward to
> getting back to work and to improving The Telecom Digest in the time
> ahead.
>
> My heartfelt thanks go to Bruce Bergman, who stepped up and did a
> great job despite having to learn more about Linux than any volunteer
> should need. Bruce's experiences and his comments about the Digest's
> internal setup will go a long way toward helping me improve things.
>
> Thank you, Bruce! I owe you one!
>
> --
> Bill Horne
> Moderator
Glad you're back and hope you're feeling better.
Thanks to the substitute team!
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:11:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Neal McLain <nmclain@annsgarden.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: I'm back
Message-ID: <5d1d3d98-542e-428f-afe2-f4a66f591372@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
On Dec 10, 6:48 pm, Telecom digest moderator
<redac...@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> After a couple of weeks in the hospital, a dozen meetings with Doctor
> Poke N. Prune, three surgeries, and a lot of reading, I'm officially
> cured. I'm resuming my post as Moderator, and I look forward to
> getting back to work and to improving The Telecom Digest in the time
> ahead.
>
> My heartfelt thanks go to Bruce Bergman, who stepped up and did a
> great job despite having to learn more about Linux than any volunteer
> should need. Bruce's experiences and his comments about the Digest's
> internal setup will go a long way toward helping me improve things.
>
> Thank you, Bruce! I owe you one!
>
> --
> Bill Horne
> Moderator
==============
Welcome back Bill!
Thank you Bruce!
Neal McLain
Resident Cable TV mole
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:51:49 -0800
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: AT&T U-verse
Message-ID: <hfttb8$dkm$1@news.eternal-september.org>
I have had DSL for some years and as of late have had major speed
problems; speed as low as 32kps; I'm told it is do to the age of the
cable; 30+ years old and having been put on a Network Router with heavy
users; gamers.
I have just ordered U-verse and have been told I will not have the same
problems since it is Fiber and then copy the last 2000 feed; still the
same old cable; Am I going to have the same problems? I have Elite DSL,
and am sticking for 6M at least for now.
I have been telecom for over 40 years in COEI and have installed DSL CO
switches as well as Verizon(GTE) Fios and that is fast since it is glass
until the last 50 feet.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:04:10 GMT
From: art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: I'm back
Message-ID: <hftu2q$13r5$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com>
And a "glad to see you back" from (primarily) a lurker!
This might be a good time to ask if there's any update on poor Pat.
Art
***** Moderator's Note *****
Thank you!
Pat Townson is still living at the Regal Estates nursing home.
You may reach him at 620-331-8789.
Bill Horne
Moderator
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End of The Telecom digest (7 messages)
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