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The Telecom Digest for January 29, 2012
Volume 31 : Issue 29 : "text" Format
====== 30 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
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Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
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See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
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Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:18:47 -0500
From: Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <jg1757$7j9$1@dont-email.me>
On 1/27/2012 5:48 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>> Could it be that there is a very limited 'need' for pure virtual PBXes?
>>
>> Well, Bell sure sold a lot of them when they called them Centrex....
>
> Indeed, but that was back when a PBX was couple of racks of noisy
> equipment that needed a dedicated maintenance guy. Now that a quite
> usable PBX can be a couple of cards in a PC, the arithmetic is quite
> different.
>
> These days, I'd think the main market for a virtual PBX would be
> virtual companies where everyone works in a home office, so the
> location of the PBX is arbitrary anyway.
>
>> Sure, but PSTN interconnectivity is now very, very cheap.
>
> Agreed. If you pay 1 cpm for outgoing VoIP to the US, that's a lot.
I've thought about using a virtual PBX in the past, but the costs of the
SIP-capable phones always put me off. I'd like to have a "business"
line, and the usual auto-attendant features, but I don't want to spend a
month's worth of income to get it.
Are there other options now?
Bill
--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:08:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Leatherock <wleathus@yahoo.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <1327766899.38345.YahooMailClassic@web111722.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
--- On Fri, 1/27/12, Robert Bonomi <bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com> wrote:
> Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>> Well, Bell sure sold a lot of them when they called them Centrex....
> Yes Bell did, BUT what they were selling was remotely-located,
> managed, physical PBX service, with hard-wire trunk circuits and
> dedicated wire-pairs to the customer equipment.
That was centrex-CO. Most Bell centrexes were CU (on customer
premises). The first one I know of that was served directly out of
the C.O. was for Bartlesville, Okla., for the Phillips Petroleum
Company headquarters. I caused quite a stir because of the physical
plant required, but Phiilips was only a block from the C.O., and a
study showed it would be cheaper to serve it out of the C.O., which
was already all 5XB. Phillips requirements would have required
another 5XB on their premises to handle their needs.
Wes Leatherock
wleathus@yahoo.com
wesrock@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:54:04 -0500
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Every home needs its own IT guru
Message-ID: <VxH7eB.A.j4D.wSDJPB@telecom>
Every home needs its own IT guru
Our growing number of gadgets means more questions for tech-savvy
friends and family
By Beth Teitell
Globe Staff
January 28, 2012
http://goo.gl/axqA4
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:26:47 -0800
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <7a9ev8-ke2.ln1@radagast.org>
In article <jg1757$7j9$1@dont-email.me>, Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net> wrote:
>I've thought about using a virtual PBX in the past, but the costs of the
>SIP-capable phones always put me off. I'd like to have a "business"
>line, and the usual auto-attendant features, but I don't want to spend a
>month's worth of income to get it.
>
>Are there other options now?
SIP phone costs have come down a lot in recent years. Alternatively,
use an existing analog phone and a separate ATA (analog telephone
adapter)... the latter can be had for around $50.
You can put a very credible Asterisk server (with automated voice
attendant, voicemail, multiple local phones, multiple inbound DIDs
from one or more providers, multiple outbound providers if you wish)
on almost any PC you can buy today or any used PC made in the last
quite-a-few years. You can buy embedded-Linux boxes these days which
are fanless and low-power, or could go with a mini-ITX Atom-based
motherboard and a small solid-state disk, if you want something with
more expansion capability. If you're running a server almost
anywhere, with good Internet capability, you could add Asterisk to it
without much difficulty, I would think.
My own home firewall/router runs Asterisk, as well as Apache and a
bunch of other stuff, on a single-core Atom board. No strain at all.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page:
http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do not wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 19:47:45 +0000 (UTC)
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <jg1jd1$1lcu$1@leila.iecc.com>
>I've thought about using a virtual PBX in the past, but the costs of the
>SIP-capable phones always put me off. I'd like to have a "business"
>line, and the usual auto-attendant features, but I don't want to spend a
>month's worth of income to get it.
You can find perfectly usable SIP phones on eBay for $30, sometimes
for under $20.
I like the picture showing how easy to use this one is:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Wireless-WiFi-SIP-VoIP-Phone-/280816249360
R's,
John
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:23:14 -0500
From: Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <jg2013$r1r$1@dont-email.me>
On 1/28/2012 2:47 PM, John Levine wrote:
>> I've thought about using a virtual PBX in the past, but the costs of the
>> SIP-capable phones always put me off. I'd like to have a "business"
>> line, and the usual auto-attendant features, but I don't want to spend a
>> month's worth of income to get it.
>
> You can find perfectly usable SIP phones on eBay for $30, sometimes
> for under $20.
>
> I like the picture showing how easy to use this one is:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Wireless-WiFi-SIP-VoIP-Phone-/280816249360
>
Thanks for the link. This is a good example of the uncertainty I have
while deciding on these phones and/or systems. The ad says that this
phone "Can Not Direct Use On SKYPE", but the picture shows the phone
connected to a "Skype SIP Server", and I'm not clear on who provides
that or what it costs.
The Quick Setup Guide shows "sip.org" on one of the phone's screens, and
the sip.org splash page says that they're in the business of providing
skype-to-sip connectivity via a "hipsip" offer, but details and pricing
are scarce: clicking the "hipsip" link takes me to the kind of page you
get when a domain is for sale.
The user manual lists some SIP providers, but two of them have ".tw"
domains, and one of the ".com" domains goes to a site written in an
oriental language. So, I'm left to wonder if every call I make using one
of those services will be making two trips to the Clarke belt - once to
Taiwan, once to Skype (presumably in the U.S.), plus whatever delays
apply to the connection from Skype to whomever I'm calling.
The other possibility is a "VoIPStunt" company, which shows it's price
list in Euros by default, and says that it works with ATA adapters but
doesn't mention SIP phones, and wants me to download an executable file
just to sign up. I don't get a lot of "warm fuzzy" feeling there.
So, in a nutshell, this phone looks like a cobbled-together offering
from a start-up company, and I wonder (pun intended) who I'm going to
call if I drop it, where the "pbx" is, and how reliable the service is
going to be.
I did a search for "SIP phone" on ebay, and came up with Cisco phones
in the $120 range, and some under-$100 offerings, but one of them
claims the phone is "unlocked", which makes me afraid that buying a
SIP-capable phone might result in a shotgun marriage with a service
provider I know nothing about.
I'd appreciate hearing from those who have used SIP phones for
connection to these and other VoIP services, with or without Skype
connectivity. TIA.
Bill
--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:54:58 -0500
From: Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <jg21sk$506$1@dont-email.me>
On 1/28/2012 5:26 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
> In article<jg1757$7j9$1@dont-email.me>, Bill Horne<bill@horneQRM.net> wrote:
>
>> I've thought about using a virtual PBX in the past, but the costs of the
>> SIP-capable phones always put me off. I'd like to have a "business"
>> line, and the usual auto-attendant features, but I don't want to spend a
>> month's worth of income to get it.
>>
>> Are there other options now?
>
> SIP phone costs have come down a lot in recent years. Alternatively,
> use an existing analog phone and a separate ATA (analog telephone
> adapter)... the latter can be had for around $50.
>
> You can put a very credible Asterisk server (with automated voice
> attendant, voicemail, multiple local phones, multiple inbound DIDs
> from one or more providers, multiple outbound providers if you wish)
> on almost any PC you can buy today or any used PC made in the last
> quite-a-few years. You can buy embedded-Linux boxes these days which
> are fanless and low-power, or could go with a mini-ITX Atom-based
> motherboard and a small solid-state disk, if you want something with
> more expansion capability. If you're running a server almost
> anywhere, with good Internet capability, you could add Asterisk to it
> without much difficulty, I would think.
>
> My own home firewall/router runs Asterisk, as well as Apache and a
> bunch of other stuff, on a single-core Atom board. No strain at all.
Thanks for the info: like most things related to SIP and VoIP, every
data point branches into another set of questions.
The analog cards available from Digium are too high for me to consider,
and the knock-offs come with vague warranties and not-that-much better
prices. That leaves SIP phones, and/or ATA units for my "2500" sets:
either way, I'd have to maintain an always-available server that needs
updates, backups, and maintenance. It all adds up to me looking for
online services, but (as I wrote in another reply), I'm concerned about
just how much depth the companies offering SIP connectivity have.
Do you have experience with "Virtual PBX" providers in the US or Canada?
I'd like to have something with less than 250 ms of round-trip latency,
which leaves out satellite connections.
Bill
--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:10:16 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Scheidt <dscheidt@panix.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <jg22p8$6jq$1@reader1.panix.com>
Bill Horne <bill@horneqrm.net> wrote:
:Do you have experience with "Virtual PBX" providers in the US or Canada?
:I'd like to have something with less than 250 ms of round-trip latency,
:which leaves out satellite connections.
Unless you or they are in the middle of the Pacific or rural alaska,
there aren't going to be any satellite hops in the link. Satellite is
just too slow -- too high latency, too low bandwidth -- for data
links. It's expensive, and hosting VOIP requires lots of bandwidth,
so they're going to put it somewhere where that's cheap.
Having said that, I don't have a current hosted provider
recommendation. If you've got the technical chops to run a server
your self, but just don't want to deal with it in your house, it's
quite possible to run an asterisk installation on a virtual server
hosted by someone else.
--
sig 63
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:52:34 -0800
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Cloud-based PBX service
Message-ID: <irhev8-13f.ln1@radagast.org>
In article <jg21sk$506$1@dont-email.me>, Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net> wrote:
>Thanks for the info: like most things related to SIP and VoIP, every
>data point branches into another set of questions.
>
>The analog cards available from Digium are too high for me to consider,
>and the knock-offs come with vague warranties and not-that-much better
>prices. That leaves SIP phones, and/or ATA units for my "2500" sets:
>either way, I'd have to maintain an always-available server that needs
>updates, backups, and maintenance.
Yup. There are places for both approaches... "owned" servers vs.
hosted services. It really depends on what you need and what you are
comfortable with.
FWIW, I've heard of people running Asterisk successfully right on
their consumer-grade WiFi router (e.g. WRT54GS, or a higher-end model
with some attached storage).
Some of the better-known names in SIP phones these days include Cisco
(of course... but probably not my first choice), Snom, Grandstream,
Aastra, and Yealink. Some of these make SIP/DECT wireless phones in
addition to SIP desk phones.
> It all adds up to me looking for
>online services, but (as I wrote in another reply), I'm concerned about
>just how much depth the companies offering SIP connectivity have.
>
>Do you have experience with "Virtual PBX" providers in the US or Canada?
>I'd like to have something with less than 250 ms of round-trip latency,
>which leaves out satellite connections.
I don't have any direct experience with these companies... I got into
this by playing around with my own installation, and prefer to keep as
much as possible in my own hands. That way, I know who to blame if
the stupid programmer gets something messed up... me!
Based on what I see on the comparison sites, there are a good number
of virtual-PBX companies offering plans that are generally quite
similar in features and cost. I suspect that most of them are based
on Asterisk, with some sort of easier-to-use UI for setup and
management.
Some of these companies may be both deep and robust... others may be
Johnnie-come-lately with poor capitalization / support / staying
power. I'd probably want to look for one with at least a few years of
stable operation... and be prepared to jump ship as quickly as
possible if there are problems. As with most things, cheap can end up
being very expensive.
How the costs work out... well, I expect that's a matter of matching
the plan you buy to your actual needs, just as with cellphone plans.
Basic plans seem to run $10-15/month, with a limited number of
minutes. On these plans, overage-minutes run at around a nickel per
minute, which is about 5x what you'd pay for direct DID or outdial
VoIP service from a residential- or small-business SIP provider.
You'll still need either a SIP phone, analog phone + ATA, or a
standard landline or cellphone to access and be called by the PBX, so
the cost of those must be included in your calculations.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page:
http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do not wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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