|
|
Message Digest
Volume 28 : Issue 246 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: Dr. James Marsters, TTY deaf service developer
Re: Dr. James Marsters, TTY deaf service developer
Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Re: Where Have You Gone, Bell Labs?
Re: Tymnet
Re: Tymnet
Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
====== 27 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and
the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other
journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are
included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address-
included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article
herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the
email.
===========================
Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be
sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters,
viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome.
We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because
we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime. Geoffrey Welsh
===========================
See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Sep 2009 05:09:52 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Dr. James Marsters, TTY deaf service developer
Message-ID: <20090905050952.9680.qmail@simone.iecc.com>
>> Who invented modems that could automatically dial ....
>
>The 'Bell 801 automatic calling unit' handled that, _external_ to the
>modem itself. Existed more than a decade before Hayes.
It did, but the control of the dialer was separate from the data path.
Hayes' important innovation was to combine the data and control
channel so any old crummy microcomputer with a minimal serial port
could autodial.
R's,
John
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:09:55 -0500
From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Dr. James Marsters, TTY deaf service developer
Message-ID: <T5KdnXJaMvzOED_XnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>
In article <20090905050952.9680.qmail@simone.iecc.com>,
John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
>>> Who invented modems that could automatically dial ....
>>
>>The 'Bell 801 automatic calling unit' handled that, _external_ to the
>>modem itself. Existed more than a decade before Hayes.
>
>It did, but the control of the dialer was separate from the data path.
Yup. And that separation is a 'big win', in terms of security and
access controls. :)
It was also possible to 'share' one 801 across multiple modems on
multiple lines -- where you had multiple 'dial-out' lines, that is.
>Hayes' important innovation was to combine the data and control
>channel so any old crummy microcomputer with a minimal serial port
>could autodial.
Hayes "contribution" was to do it *without* using any of the so-called
'modem control' signals present in a full RS-232 interface.
With the _big_ cost differential between a minimal 3-wire terminal port,
and a 'full RS-232' port, one could successfully sell a modem that
needed only a 3-wire port for a significantly higher price than a 'full
RS-232' modem sold for, and still *SAVE* the customer money, overall.
(combined cost of modem and the serial port for the computer)
Other people, before Hayes, had used 'in-band' signalling (and still do)
for conveying dialing instructions to the modem. However they require
manipulation of some of the additional signals in a 'full' RS-232
interface to switch between the mode where commands are sent and one
where all data is passed through 'transparently'.
Hayes' _key_ innovation, and the one for which they got a patent -- the
only patentable feature of their basic system -- was the means of
escaping from "_transparent_ data transmission" back to "command mode".
i.e., the mandatory 'guard time' surrounding the magic character
sequence ('+++', by default).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:26:47 -0400
From: Telecom digest moderator <redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Message-ID: <20090905142647.GA10891@telecom.csail.mit.edu>
During the recent thread about TDD and Dr. Marsters, Tymnet came up
for discussion.
I'm interested in opinions about why Tymnet went under. They were in
service, had code/speed conversion down to a science, and had access
numbers everywhere. What happened?
ISTR that Tymnet/Telenet morphed into the companies that carry
credit-card verification traffic, but Wikipedia says Tymnet died and
Telenet was absorbed into Sprintnet, so I don't know which company
carries credit-card data, or how.
--
Bill Horne
Moderator
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:21:37 -0500
From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Message-ID: <Z_GdnewbzPuMDT_XnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@posted.nuvoxcommunications>
In article <20090905142647.GA10891@telecom.csail.mit.edu>,
Telecom digest moderator <redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>During the recent thread about TDD and Dr. Marsters, Tymnet came up
>for discussion.
>
>I'm interested in opinions about why Tymnet went under. They were in
>service, had code/speed conversion down to a science, and had access
>numbers everywhere. What happened?
Not necessarily in order --
(A) *lots* of competitors sprang up -- it became a 'commodity'
market, with 'lowest price' being "the" decision criteria (in
the early 80s one service bureau I used changed network carriers
_three_times_ in less than a 2 year period. Simply because the
new carrier offered a better rate package.
(B) Long distance rates _plummeted_.
(C) long distance 'voice' call quality improved, _radically_.
(B) and (C) resulted in a situation where one could make a
cross-country voice call for -less- than the connect rate that one of
the 'packet' services charged, *and* get a higher-speed connection.
For a while, one could 'move bits' for lower cost over the voice
network (using state-of-the-art modems) than one could over dedicated
"data" circuits.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:49:28 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Message-ID: <4AA2B2B8.8060507@thadlabs.com>
On 9/5/2009 7:27 AM, Telecom digest moderator wrote:
> During the recent thread about TDD and Dr. Marsters, Tymnet came up
> for discussion.
>
> I'm interested in opinions about why Tymnet went under. They were in
> service, had code/speed conversion down to a science, and had access
> numbers everywhere. What happened?
>
> ISTR that Tymnet/Telenet morphed into the companies that carry
> credit-card verification traffic, but Wikipedia says Tymnet died and
> Telenet was absorbed into Sprintnet, so I don't know which company
> carries credit-card data, or how.
Competition, price and the Internet all contributed to Tymnet's demise.
Even PacBell's PPS*NET was a major competitor, charging only 50 cents
per hour for their public packet-switched network at the same time
Tymnet was charging $2.50 per hour. I used PPS*NET to connect to, for
example, The Well; 50 cents an hour over PPS*NET was considerably
cheaper than the toll charges for 50 miles calling The Well directly.
Tymnet cried "Foul!" to the California PUC claiming PacBell's pricing
for PPS*NET was predatory. Uh, users thought Tymnet's pricing was
predatory at 5 times PacBell's. It took several years to resolve this,
and sadly PPS*NET was forced to shut down (early 1990s).
I've included some additional info about Tymnet in another article
in this thread. The info at Wikipedia is not definitive.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:04:53 -0700
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Tymnet?
Message-ID: <h7ujpo$l00$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Thad Floryan wrote:
> On 9/5/2009 7:27 AM, Telecom digest moderator wrote:
>> During the recent thread about TDD and Dr. Marsters, Tymnet came up
>> for discussion.
>>
>> I'm interested in opinions about why Tymnet went under. They were in
>> service, had code/speed conversion down to a science, and had access
>> numbers everywhere. What happened?
>>
>> ISTR that Tymnet/Telenet morphed into the companies that carry
>> credit-card verification traffic, but Wikipedia says Tymnet died and
>> Telenet was absorbed into Sprintnet, so I don't know which company
>> carries credit-card data, or how.
>
> Competition, price and the Internet all contributed to Tymnet's demise.
>
> Even PacBell's PPS*NET was a major competitor, charging only 50 cents
> per hour for their public packet-switched network at the same time
> Tymnet was charging $2.50 per hour. I used PPS*NET to connect to, for
> example, The Well; 50 cents an hour over PPS*NET was considerably
> cheaper than the toll charges for 50 miles calling The Well directly.
>
> Tymnet cried "Foul!" to the California PUC claiming PacBell's pricing
> for PPS*NET was predatory. Uh, users thought Tymnet's pricing was
> predatory at 5 times PacBell's. It took several years to resolve this,
> and sadly PPS*NET was forced to shut down (early 1990s).
>
> I've included some additional info about Tymnet in another article
> in this thread. The info at Wikipedia is not definitive.
>
I used PC Pursuit for some years for our Apple II BBS network, their
people helped with system problems, little did we know is that we were
their testers for the fiber network until they turned it off. We used it
for GTE telemail for a few more years.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, inc, A Rot in Hell. Co.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:16:02 -0400
From: "Geoffrey Welsh" <gwelsh@spamcop.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Where Have You Gone, Bell Labs?
Message-ID: <3df83$4aa280e6$cf701429$29428@PRIMUS.CA>
T wrote:
> I'm curious on why local services are so expensive for the companies?
At my previous residence, as with my current residence, I maintain a land
line with only very basic service, the kind that costs about twenty dollars
a month (I'd have to pay about a third of that to run DSL over a dry line,
anyway.) However, at my previous residence, I had to call repair at least
once a year (my favorites were when the call center agent could barely hear
me over the noise) and the problems were usually solved by rolling a truck,
whether to juggle connections at the pedestal (which was on my next door
neighbour's lawn) or to replace the line from there to my home (which they
did twice: once by stringing it through trees and again later when they
buried it.) Rolling a truck is very expensive compared to $20/month and is
usualy avoided if at all possible. This continued for years, and I can't
help but wonder how many others in my area - at least those served by the
same pedestal - might have been similarly affected.
There is no doubt in my mind that Bell Canada lost money just maintaining
the last dozen yards of my local loop, before we even think about the cost
of installing and maintaining the rest of the local loop, the switch, the
trunks, the CO building, power, administration, etc.
--
Geoffrey Welsh
.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 08:42:56 -0700
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Tymnet
Message-ID: <h7u0u2$299$1@news.eternal-september.org>
This might be it. I used it with BofA and I remember it changed names
before the bank moved to Web site. I still have the users guide with
the information on Western Union EasyLink.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymshare
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, inc, A Rot in Hell. Co.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:38:49 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Tymnet
Message-ID: <4AA2B039.9040009@thadlabs.com>
On 9/5/2009 8:58 AM, Steven wrote:
> This might be it. I used it with BofA and I remember it changed names
> before the bank moved to Web site. I still have the users guide with
> the information on Western Union EasyLink.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymshare
There are numerous errors in that wikipedia article and also in
the one about Tymnet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymnet. I know
some local (Silicon Valley) people who should edit the Tymnet aspects,
and perhaps I should edit the Tymshare aspects.
Some better info about the origins of Tymnet are in the following
interviews of its creator, LaRoy Tymes:
http://www.computer-history.info/Page1.dir/pages/Tymes.html
This one is definitive:
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Tymes_LaRoy/Tymes_LaRoy_1.oral_history.2004.102657988.pdf
This one is interesting:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Tymnet
And here's a short story by LaRoy Tymes at the Computer History
Museum's site http://corphist.computerhistory.org/:
" I wrote all of the original code for TYMNET from 1968
" through 1971 in assembly for the SPC-12 (which lasted for
" only a year or so), the SDS-940(which ran the network
" supervisor, access control, and accounting package), and the
" Varian 620-I (the network nodes). Norman Hardy contributed
" ideas, a few of which were taken from the Octopus network
" (1966-1968) at Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, Livermore,
" which networked the IBM 7030 Stretch, the CDC 6600, and some
" other machines and peripherals. Ann Hardy and David Gardner
" made helpful modifications to the SDS-940 operating system.
"
" After 1972 significant contributors to TYMNET included Joe
" Rinde (Supervisor on the TYMNET engine), Carl Holmberg
" (further development on Supervisor after Rinde), John Kopf
" (operating system for the TYMNET engine), Art Caisse
" (interfacing TYMNET to various mainframes), and June
" Nishimoto (PDP-10 base enhancements). Guy Blood and Verne
" Van Vlear did not work on the network itself, but took care
" of accounting and access control databases.
"
" On the hardware side, I designed and microcoded the CPU of
" the TYMNET engine. Other hardware engineers on the engine
" project were Barry Burnsides, Ron Graves, and Larry
" Pizzella.
"
" The last major contributors to the TYMNET technology made
" the conversion to SPARC workstations in 1996. They included
" Romulo Raffo, Bill Soley, and myself.
"
" Bill Combs was the first and major sales person for TYMNET.
"
" In a project of such a size, many other people were
" involved, but the above list is a fairly complete list of
" the major innovators and contributors.
"
" Incidentally, I booted the network in its complete form in
" November of 1971. It ran without a single system crash or
" reboot until March of 2003, when it was shut down. It
" survived many hardware and software upgrades during that
" time without a single system wide failure. Also, I wrote
" three versions of the routing function that determined the
" optimum path through the network, one in assembly for the
" SDS-940 in 1971, one in assembly and microcode for the
" TYMNET engine in 1974, and the last one in C for the SPARC
" in 1996. The one I wrote in 1974 ran 24/7 for 22 years
" without being touched or "maintained". I think that might be
" some sort of industry record for mission critical software.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:01:42 -0400
From: "Geoffrey Welsh" <gwelsh@spamcop.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Message-ID: <87d6c$4aa28b9a$cf701429$22726@PRIMUS.CA>
T wrote:
> This is why I'm an advocated of ITS Phase 3. That's where the cars
> drive themselves. Humans are the last variable in motor vehicle
> safety. Remove that variable and let the machine do the driving.
As much as I cringe at some humans driving, I cringe more at the thought of
commoditized computers driving.
I'm sure we've all heard the joke about how the computer executive bragged
that the if the auto industry had advanced like the computer industry then
all cars would get a thousand miles per gallon, perform like Formula 1 race
cars, and cost pocket change... and an auto industry exective replied that
if automobiles had followed in computers' footsteps then every car would for
no apparent reason blow up about once a week, killing everyone inside.
And another one: there are two kinds of people: those who don't trust
computers because they don't understand how they work, and those who don't
trust computers precisely because they understand exactly how they work.
I just fixed a friend's computer: the fan in the power supply stopped
working, causing it to overheat and put the computer into fits of blue
screens and reboots. I don't want that happening to the computer driving my
car (or the one in the dump truck approaching me going the other way.)
That's just the hardware side; I don't think it's a good idea to put a
vehicle under the control of a program which was written by a human who, no
matter how sober, focused, and well-intentioned, isn't going to be there
with me when I encounter the obscure bug that wasn't found because the
low-bidding supplier he works for reduced the resources dedicated to code
review in order to avoid losing money on the contract.
Doesn't the military hold an annual competition to find the first vehicle
that can complete a course under its own guidance, and the best effort so
far made it a few hundred yards before getting stuck? To be fair, the
military course is off-road, but wouldn't real-life conditions (e.g.
weather, traffic) be just as challenging?
--
Geoffrey Welsh
.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:06:36 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Message-ID: <4AA2A8AC.8060409@thadlabs.com>
On 9/5/2009 10:41 AM, Geoffrey Welsh wrote:
> [...]
> Doesn't the military hold an annual competition to find the first vehicle
> that can complete a course under its own guidance, and the best effort so
> far made it a few hundred yards before getting stuck? To be fair, the
> military course is off-road, but wouldn't real-life conditions (e.g.
> weather, traffic) be just as challenging?
That was the first year's contest.
Two years ago, for example, was a 55-mile urban challenge, and 6 vehicles
successfully completed the tour.
http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge/index.asp
http://www.darpa.mil/GRANDCHALLENGE/overview.asp
http://www.darpagrandchallenge.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 16:39:17 -0400
From: T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Message-ID: <MPG.250c9678c01c9c4e989b79@news.eternal-september.org>
In article <87d6c$4aa28b9a$cf701429$22726@PRIMUS.CA>, gwelsh@spamcop.net
says...
> I just fixed a friend's computer: the fan in the power supply stopped
> working, causing it to overheat and put the computer into fits of blue
> screens and reboots. I don't want that happening to the computer driving my
> car (or the one in the dump truck approaching me going the other way.)
> That's just the hardware side; I don't think it's a good idea to put a
> vehicle under the control of a program which was written by a human who, no
> matter how sober, focused, and well-intentioned, isn't going to be there
> with me when I encounter the obscure bug that wasn't found because the
> low-bidding supplier he works for reduced the resources dedicated to code
> review in order to avoid losing money on the contract.
>
> Doesn't the military hold an annual competition to find the first vehicle
> that can complete a course under its own guidance, and the best effort so
> far made it a few hundred yards before getting stuck? To be fair, the
> military course is off-road, but wouldn't real-life conditions (e.g.
> weather, traffic) be just as challenging?
>
>
And some of us who work with computers all the time trust them fairly
well. Put it this way I keep all my updates on this machine, I do
maintenance etc. In fact I recently had to replace the LCD on this
machine (laptop). It's easy to do.
That said the systems for vehicles will obviously be hardened a bit.
They won't be full blown operating systems that do everything from
control the radio to drive the car. They're be dedicated systems with
full diagnostics.
***** Moderator's Note *****
We're getting away from telecom.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:21:23 +1000
From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Message-ID: <pan.2009.09.06.00.21.22.19938@myrealbox.com>
On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:41:15 -0400, T wrote: ........
> And some of us who work with computers all the time trust them fairly
> well. Put it this way I keep all my updates on this machine, I do
> maintenance etc. In fact I recently had to replace the LCD on this
> machine (laptop). It's easy to do.
......
>
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> We're getting away from telecom.
Yep, but modern phone handsets are basically computers and computers make
up the vast majority of the telephone network these days - and people
already rely on them for potentially life saving situations (whether they
realise it or not).
If people don't want to "rely" on computers then they can give up all
technology, otherwise accept that they already rely on them for so many
things now and having vehicles controlled by them is just another
extension of that.
--
Regards, David.
David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Sep 2009 21:34:48 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Texting (and cell phone usage) while driving movie: the consequences
Message-ID: <20090905213448.51698.qmail@simone.iecc.com>
>As much as I cringe at some humans driving, I cringe more at the thought of
>commoditized computers driving.
Nobody's suggesting commoditized computers in control of your car.
Your experience with the unreliability of Windows-based PCs is
unsurprising, but those are about the least reliable computers in the
world. I run servers built out of ordinary PC hardware that routinely
run unattended for months at a time. (I visit them a few times a
years to change the backup disks.) Computers built from the ground up
to be reliable are way better than that.
I believe that every car sold in the US in recent years has electronic
fuel injection, which means that a programmable computer is
dynamically controlling when and how much air and fuel is injected
into each cylinder on each cycle, and that is far from the only
computer controlled subsystem. Modern commercial airplanes are "fly
by wire" with the only path from the controls to the engines and
airfoils being via computers, which are if anything more reliable than
the mechanical and pneumatic systems that preceded them.
ObTelecom (Hi, Bill!): Phone switches have been controled by computers
since the 1970s, and they are to put it mildly, rather reliable. They
do this by a combination of conservative hardware design, software
designed to be reliable (as opposed to designed by marketers' wish
lists), and redundancy. These techniques are all equally applicable
to automated vehicle controls.
R's,
John
------------------------------
TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecom-
munications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in
addition to Usenet, where it appears as the moderated newsgroup
'comp.dcom.telecom'.
TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.
The Telecom Digest is currently being moderated by Bill Horne while
Pat Townson recovers from a stroke.
Contact information: Bill Horne
Telecom Digest
43 Deerfield Road
Sharon MA 02067-2301
781-784-7287
bill at horne dot net
Subscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=subscribe telecom
Unsubscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=unsubscribe telecom
This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm-
unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and
published continuously since then. Our archives are available for
your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list
on the internet in any category!
URL information: http://telecom-digest.org
Copyright (C) 2009 TELECOM Digest. All rights reserved.
Our attorney is Bill Levant, of Blue Bell, PA.
************************
---------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help
is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of fifty dollars
per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above.
Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
your name to the mailing list.
All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the
author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only
and messages should not be considered any official expression by the
organization.
End of The Telecom digest (14 messages)
******************************
|
or 