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Message Digest
Volume 28 : Issue 222 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
articles on decline of pay phones
Re: articles on decline of pay phones
End of a print publication
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:31:18 -0400
From: Telecom digest moderator <telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom.csail.mit.edu>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
Message-ID: <20090812163118.GA688@telecom.csail.mit.edu>
This is an unusual question, so please bear with me.
Once of the readers has asked for help interfacing a "Local
Battery/Local Magneto" PBX with the PSTN, and I'm trying to think
"outside the cubicle", and come up with a solution that doesn't
require spending a lot of money.
Here's the situation: there's a rustic vacation setting in VZ
territory, where every cabin has an honest-to-god wall phone with a
magneto crank on the side and a battery in it to power the
microphone. Yes, pretty much every image of Ma & Pa Kettle applies.
The cabins are connected to a central cord board, which is, literally,
the telephone exchange for every building on the property, and which
_also_ has a magneto and batteries for the operator's headset: just
imagine a 555 board with a magneto on the side (in fact, that used to
be an option for 555 boards). The cabins signal the operator with the
magneto, by cranking the handle when they want to talk to another
cabin or the office, the restaurant, etc. The operator does the same
for calls between the cabins (or restaurant, etc.), i.e., (s)he cranks
the magneto on the switchboard to ring the phone at the
destination. After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings
off", i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the
operator's console, so that the operator knows it's time to
disconnect.
Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but
AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in
use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel
strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins
and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so
they are determined to keep the existing equipment.
Ergo, I have these questions, and I'd like to hear from Central Office
technicians and engineers.
1. Are central office dial tone circuits capable of accepting ring
signals from a magneto PBX? In other words, if the PBX in question
is attached to a dial tone "trunk", and the operator cranks the
magneto, is the CO capable of connecting the call to a Verizon
operator? (I know this *can* be done, because I once accidentally
cranked a magneto on a surplus field phone that was connected to a
dial tone line, and an operator answered, but the question is if it
is a regular feature of common central office equipment.)
2. Are the CO's Verizon uses capable of supporting "Ring down" trunks?
Assuming that an ordinary "PBX trunk", i.e., a dial tone line,
can't work on a ring-down basis, could Verizon option a circuit pack
so that it can be done? I'm thinking of "manual service" lines used
by paraplegics and others who can't dial a call.
3. Assuming that options 1 or 2 aren't available, what "work around"
is available that would allow the 555 PBX to interface with the
PSTN despite it's lack of DC supervision and the need to use
ring-down signalling?
Thanks for your help.
--
Bill Horne
Temporary Moderator
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
Message-ID: <24140264-c2f6-4a44-b63f-f21febae9fe3@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 12, 12:40 pm, Telecom digest moderator
<telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-t...@and-this-
too.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings off",
> i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the operator's
> console, so that the operator knows it's time to disconnect.
A common problem in magneto systems was that subscribers forgot to
ring off. That's a reason telephones have hookswitches; so that when
the subscriber is finished with the call and "hangs up the phone", the
action cuts out the circuit.
> Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but
> AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in
> use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel
> strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins
> and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so
> they are determined to keep the existing equipment.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the system is in place and in
use, what kind of interface does it already have to a central
office? Are these new owners or existing owners?
At this point I'd like to respectfully interject an observation: I
personally am big on "old time" stuff, but almost everyone else are
not. To actually use a handcrank phone or even a dial phone might be
interesting--once--but not after that. I can't help but suspect a
guest might enjoy making _one_ call on a crank phone, but after that
find it rather tedious.
> Ergo, I have these questions, and I'd like to hear from Central Office
> technicians and engineers.
> 2. Are the CO's Verizon uses capable of supporting "Ring down" trunks?
I am not a technician, but I'd like to offer some general
observations. (I am curious as to what the technical people will
say.)
Based on a special tariff announcements, many old legacy wiring
arrangements are supported--for a price. That price probably is
higher, or much higher, than to use modern technology.
As an example, unattended railway stations need an emergency phone in
case a passenger needs help. It is often cheaper for the carrier to
simply pay the phoneco provide a standard pay phone rather than pay
for a dedicated 'lift receiver' line.
Certain old arrangements are no longer supported in some areas, such
as party lines or 20/60 milliAmp teletype service.
What is supported varies by individual C.O.
I would suggest containing the Business Office Professional-Services
representative at the phoneco serving the hotel.
> 3. Assuming that options 1 or 2 aren't available, what "work around"
> is available that would allow the 555 PBX to interface with the
> PSTN despite it's lack of DC supervision and the need to use
> ring-down signalling?
I can't help but suspect the phone company will not be interested in
supported this oddball arrangement; but if they were, it would be
quite pricey for a custom engineered arrangement.
In situations like this often a 'black box' interface that takes the
standard telco CO interface on one end and the magneto interface on
the other might work out. Obviously the hotel operator will need a
dial capability, be it pulse or Touch Tone.
But I would question the need for the hotel operator to require
magneto signalling to the C.O. Switchboards did handle both types of
signalling and acted as an interface between the two systems. I don't
think there's a reason that the switchboard couldn't have standard PBX
trunk circuits and magneto circuits for the extensions, though the
cord circuits may need modification.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:42:22 GMT
From: "wdag" <wgeary@verizon.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Sending ringing current toward a CO on a dial tone trunk
Message-ID: <yrIgm.1790$nh2.238@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:24140264-c2f6-4a44-b63f-f21febae9fe3@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 12, 12:40 pm, Telecom digest moderator
> <telecomdigestsubmissions.remove-t...@and-this-
> too.telecom.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > After a call is completed, one of the stations "rings off",
> > i.e., cranks the magneto to activate the "drop" flag on the operator's
> > console, so that the operator knows it's time to disconnect.
>
> A common problem in magneto systems was that subscribers forgot to
> ring off. That's a reason telephones have hookswitches; so that when
> the subscriber is finished with the call and "hangs up the phone", the
> action cuts out the circuit.
>
And that's why manual board operators would "listen in" on "active" patches
every now and then. Plus, as "automatic" CO switching became available,
manual boards would have appearances of modern "common battery" trunks at
board positions, with the "adapter circuitry" (including a dial) to go
between the "new" CO line and the old magneto circuit(s). Are you sure this
board doesn't already have such circuits (equipment) in it?
> > Now, you're probably wondering why anyone would use such a setup, but
> > AFAIK this is a real place, and the equipment is really there and in
> > use every day. The reader I'm trying to help says the owners feel
> > strongly that the "crank" phones add a distinctive charm to the cabins
> > and create an "old timey" atmosphere which is good for business, so
> > they are determined to keep the existing equipment.
>
*wonders if they also use "charming" outhouses too...*
Plus, what happens when one of the guests tries to use the cranky old phones
to call a modern system to, say, hear their voice messages? "Press 1 to
play" isn't much use when there's no 1 to press...
***** Moderator's Note *****
The PBX in question definitely does _NOT_ have any interface
capability. I'm told it's a military-surplus model, strictly local
battery/local magneto. I asked if it's the same as the one Gary
Burghoff used in "M*A*S*H", but it turns out to be closer to Bebe
Daniels in "Chickie".
I don't think they have outhouses: I think the owners at this place
probably want their guests to remember how nice things looked in old
movies that showed crank telephones in rural settings. As we all know,
nobody ever uses a toilet in the movies ... ;-)
If the guests are interested in checking their voice mail, there are
regular TouchTone phones within walking distance, but there's probably
little demand for them: I'm told that the guests go to this place
_because_ it's free of the distractions of modern life.
Bill Horne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: articles on decline of pay phones
Message-ID: <7ce014db-f199-4b28-bb9a-e4334f9c750b@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
The following two articles from the Newark Star Ledger describe the
decline in pay phones. They offer some counts of phones in service
and removed:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/nj_cuts_back_on_pay_phones_as.html
http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2009/08/hanging_up_the_pay_phone.html
I wonder if some larger property owners don't realize they're paying
the phoneco to provide pay phones for their property; perhaps more
phones than they need.
The following article describes some crime victims who couldn't call
for help. (I thought there was a law that if someone asks you to call
911 for an emergency, you were required to do so.)
http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2009/07/robbed_in_montclair_looking_th.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:31:22 GMT
From: "wdag" <wgeary@verizon.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: articles on decline of pay phones
Message-ID: <ehIgm.1873$Jg.970@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:7ce014db-f199-4b28-bb9a-e4334f9c750b@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> ...
>
> (I thought there was a law that if someone asks you to call
> 911 for an emergency, you were required to do so.)
The story _doesn't_ say the robbery victim asked the gas station
attendant(s) to "call 911", it says they asked to _use their phone_ i.e.
either come behind the bulletproof partition - where the attendant can be
more easily robbed - or (more likely) be handed the attendant's cellphone -
and disappear with it. Any law requiring someone to make themselves a
potential crime victim is unenforceable.
[Moderator snip]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:58:35 -0700
From: Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: End of a print publication
Message-ID: <h5vlf3$hgj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
I just go my July/August issue of Telephony. In it the editor tells
everyone that this will be the last print issue after 108 year. When I
starting for California Water Telephone (GTE) in 1967 I used to read my
supervisors issue, and was able to lean a lot of what was happening;
from what I remember is was pretty good sized with a lot of ads. Over
the years and in the last few it has gotten spammer with each issue.
They will continue with the on line issues and a new print wil be called
Connected Planet. I have had my own issue for the last 30 years, and
I think I have all of those in boxes in the garage: I have looked at
older issues over the and have seen the changes, gone are the ads from
Automatic Electric for step stuff and Western Electric ads.
--
The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.
------------------------------
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