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Message Digest Volume 28 : Issue 170 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month OT: Re: Usenet newsgroups Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Re: Usenet newsgroups Answering machine with Caller ID needed Re: Answering machine with Caller ID needed Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month "touch tone" on cell phones, was: Touch Tone Charges... Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Re: Usenet newsgroups US Supreme Court lets court case against AT&T continue Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID ====== 27 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ====== Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:49:50 -0500 From: "John F. Morse" <xanadu@example.invalid> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <61c42$4a3f1b80$4aded8bf$21446@EVERESTKC.NET> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > On Jun 20, 3:31 am, "John F. Morse" <xanadu....@example.invalid> > wrote: > > >>> I also wonder which was retired last--No. 1 crossbar or Panel. >>> >> 1XB outlasted Panel. >> >> 1XB also outlasted some 5XB switches. It was a heavy-hitter, while 5XB >> would lock up. >> > > Thanks for the info. Would you know why the old Bell literature > seemed to wax poetic about No. 5 but mostly ignored No. 1? Were the > differences that significant? > >From my experience, I can only guess.... 5XB was designed for small COs in suburbs, usually to replace SXS. 1XB was designed for large metropolitan COs, often replacing Panel, or those monster SXS designs. 5XB used the then-current manufacturing model, whereas 1XB manufacturing for growth probably ceased to exist (cf. many types of flat-spring vs. more-standardized wire-spring relays). 5XB used somewhat lighter (thinner) metal, therefore was likely cheaper to manufacture. Wirewrap vs. soldering. Cable racks for 1XB had cables neatly laced, but 5XB cable racks contained loosely-laid "piles" of cables on aluminum sheets. (This may be a local decision and not necessarily dependent on the switch). I could see WECo charging less to install a 5XB office or adding equipment. When they got to 1ESS, they had the cable racks at eye-level, filled them, then jacked up the whole system, sliding the bays in underneath, then dropping the racks. 5XB was faster for call completion, but it could block under heavy traffic, like several failures requiring the Trouble Recorder at the same time (snowball effect). 1XB could still push calls even in the heaviest traffic situation. I can't remember now, but I think it was 5XB that gained some on speed by using some 130-volt relays, instead of 48-volt relays. 5XB used a balanced power load demand, where some relays were up while others were down when idle. 1XB was mostly everything down until used. This meant the power room for a 1XB office needed to be much tougher than a 5XB office, where the demand didn't fluctuate as widely. The daily power swing was fairly flat for suburban COs, while downtown COs had a lot of calls only during the working hours. 5XB used a pair of small ringing generators, while 1XB had large motor-generators, with mercury-filled interrupters, all mounted on a large table. 5XB had interrupters that used the W-Z "walking" relay theory, while 1XB used 1/20 HP AC/DC motor-driven Office Interrupter frames, just like Panel (same motors too). Think: lubrication, oil, cleaning, smell, .... 1XB used ANI from Number Networks to a CAMA office. 5XB used ANI from Translator Frames to LAMA Recorders (paper punches). At least in my area. I suppose this could be reversed easily. Finally, all 1XB (and Panel) offices I've ever seen had a switchman on duty 24/7. The 5XB offices were usually unmanned at night, with their alarms sent remotely to a 1XB office. This may indicate that 5XB was designed with remote alarm sending and release in mind, while 1XB never had the capability to be remotely monitored, much less remotely retiring (releasing) alarms. The 5XB had a Trouble Recorder that punched holes in large cards showing call progress up to the failure, and what equipment was used on the call. They could be examined the following morning. The 1XB office only had an OTI and a TTI for originating and terminating trouble. It was a panel with hundreds of 48-volt switchboard lamps, showing the call progress and equipment. It had to be manually released after manually recording the lighted lamps on a paper sheet. The Subscriber Sender testboard also had to be manually operated to release stuck senders in 1XB. You could have a bunch of stuck senders (out of service) if there was another office failure, or a major cut cable somewhere. So, maybe the cost of labor was creeping up and Ma Bell decided to run 5XB in a more automatic mode to cut down on tat cost? -- John . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:30:42 -0500 From: Michael Grigoni <michael.grigoni@cybertheque.org> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <4A3FDBE2.7020609@cybertheque.org> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > On Jun 20, 3:31 am, "John F. Morse" <xanadu....@example.invalid> > wrote: > > >>>I also wonder which was retired last--No. 1 crossbar or Panel. >> >>1XB outlasted Panel. >> >>1XB also outlasted some 5XB switches. It was a heavy-hitter, while 5XB >>would lock up. > > > Thanks for the info. Would you know why the old Bell literature > seemed to wax poetic about No. 5 but mostly ignored No. 1? Were the > differences that significant? In a very interesting 1963 short film, Ray Bradbury tours what appears to be a 1XB office, and also describes the story development for the haunting tale "Dial Double Zero", about spontaneous emergence of intelligence in a telephone switch. I recommend downloading the MP4 or OGG video here: http://www.archive.org/details/RayBradburyStoryOfAWriterByDavidL.Wolper I have strong memories of seeing a complete film version of "Dial Double Zero" but cannot find any references to a release, either on film or other media. Does anyone else have a recollection of it or know more about it? Michael ***** Moderator's Note ***** I was just talking about that film the other day: my friend called me and asked if I knew where he could get a copy, but then this strange sound came on the line ... Bill Horne Temporary Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:24:02 -0500 From: "John F. Morse" <xanadu@example.invalid> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <4A400482.1030909@example.invalid> Michael Grigoni wrote: > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > >> On Jun 20, 3:31 am, "John F. Morse" <xanadu....@example.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>>> I also wonder which was retired last--No. 1 crossbar or Panel. >>> >>> 1XB outlasted Panel. >>> >>> 1XB also outlasted some 5XB switches. It was a heavy-hitter, while 5XB >>> would lock up. >> >> Thanks for the info. Would you know why the old Bell literature >> seemed to wax poetic about No. 5 but mostly ignored No. 1? Were the >> differences that significant? > > In a very interesting 1963 short film, Ray Bradbury tours what appears to > be a 1XB office, and also describes the story development for the > haunting tale "Dial Double Zero", about spontaneous emergence of > intelligence > in a telephone switch. I recommend downloading the MP4 or OGG video > here: > http://www.archive.org/details/RayBradburyStoryOfAWriterByDavidL.Wolper > > I have strong memories of seeing a complete film version of "Dial Double > Zero" but cannot find any references to a release, either on film or > other media. Does anyone else have a recollection of it or know more > about it? > > Michael > > > ***** Moderator's Note ***** > > I was just talking about that film the other day: my friend called me > and asked if I knew where he could get a copy, but then this strange > sound came on the line ... > > Bill Horne > Temporary Moderator > It was indeed an interesting story. I would say this is a 4XB office though (4A-CTS), instead of a 1XB. It didn't look like any 1XB I've seen. I couldn't clearly make out the characters, but the stenciling on the end guards appears different than any 1XB end guard I've seen. I base this on the long equipment lineup appearing too "clean" and not like a normal mix of various kinds of bays in an aisle, which is common in a 1XB office that has gone through several additions. I would guess this aisle is Incoming Link or Outgoing Link frames. Reinforcing this view, Bradbury did mention at 12:31 into this story, he was visiting a "long distance telephone switching center." Then he is given a tour of the toll testboard room, where there are many toll testboard and make-busy positions. Not something you'd find in a Class 5 1XB end office. I'll forward the link to a retired toll testboardman (repeaterman) and see if he recognizes the board models. They are definitely not Local Test Desk #14 nor LTD #16. The proof of 4XB is at 12:48, where there is a clear display of an operating Magnetic Card Translator, which is a 4A-CTS component (before 4A-ETS). http://www.telephonetribute.com/switches_survey_chapter_8.html -- John . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:23:20 -0700 (PDT) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <8a42f393-9f99-4c9d-b6c8-cbc0307f3fba@l34g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> On Jun 21, 5:27 pm, T <kd1s.nos...@cox.nospam.net> wrote: > Because they were setup to do so. That is one thing about Bell, once > they'd perfected a manufacturing setup they stuck with it. Not totally. They did make evolutionary changes "under the hood". The 500 set was improved in numerous ways between its introduction and termination. As mentioned, dial lamps were converted to LEDs from plain bulbs. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:36:24 -0700 From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: OT: Re: Usenet newsgroups Message-ID: <h1mjp3$bin$1@news.eternal-september.org> On 6/21/2009 8:42 AM, John Mayson wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> wrote: >> [...] > I do agree that Google Groups is a useful archive. What I don't > understand is how Google could create such a wonderful interface for > GMail and such a lousy one for Google Groups. Actually, the Google Groups (GG) interface isn't too bad once it's been configured. I was seeing threads and individual articles just fine. It's far better than most web-based forums I've seen (and abandoned). > I tried to make GG my > primary conduit for USENET, but it was just too frustrating to use. > Alpine and an NNTP server work far better, IMHO. I'm presently using Thunderbird and an NNTP server; works fine. I used to use knews and an NNTP server on one of my old Sun boxes, but its HD went belly-up circa 2003 and, due to working 14-16 hours/day (until recently (2 companies belly-up on me in 2 years)), I simply didn't have time to setup another similar system. > I know people who use GG are looked down upon across USENET. I'm not > sure how deserved this actually is. Until recently (perhaps January 2009), it was deserved due to all the anonymous spam postings originating from GG. GG then switched to using CAPTCHAS to thwart automated spamming and it seems to work, but it's a royal PITA for humans to use. For info about CAPTCHAS, see the bottom left corner of the 2nd page of this 6-page document: http://www.richgossweiler.com/projects/rotcaptcha/rotcaptcha.pdf >> As I posted here a week ago, I use local system files which are identical on >> my Linux, UNIX, and Windows systems to access both Yahoo and Google Groups: >> >> http://thadlabs.com/PIX/home_page_display.jpg > > This is an honest question and I'm not trolling. Why not just use > bookmarks? If you use multiple browsers you could easily use > something like Delicious.com. Just curious is all. Bookmarks are awkward to use; I simply don't like them. Some of those seemingly "simple" HTML buttons do some pre-/post-processing which is not possible with bookmarks, and some others allow me to quickly retrieve newspaper articles by date (something I do a lot). Plus, I have nearly 50 computers here and it's trivial using a file(s) as local "home" HTML pages on any one of them. 18 computers are visible in this picture from last year (there are now 2 more atop my desk, with 2 more arriving soon (fist-sized Linux boxes using < 5W power)): http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Thad_desk.jpg :-) >> [...] >> 28 years (back to 1981) far exceeds most/all NNTP servers' retention and expiry >> policies. > > You bet! I just hope Google maintains it. I hope so, too. IIRC, there was a SNAFU when Google acquired the Usenet archives and some were irretrievably lost. I should check my archives and see if I can replenish some of them; for nearly 2 decades I archived some 70 "important to me" (comp.* and sci.*) newsgroups daily -- easy to do and didn't consume much space before the events of "Eternal September". If you're wondering what that is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:33:23 -0700 (PDT) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <59576bf1-10c3-470a-9375-eb12c3547b47@n30g2000vba.googlegroups.com> On Jun 21, 11:49 am, Mark Smith <marklsm...@yahoo.com> wrote: > In Rhode Island, New England Bell did not have enough pairs to support > the boom in the 50s of suburbia. . . . This was a common problem after WW II. There was a huge backlog in service requests and the country had a great deal of prosperity, resulting in a big demand for service. In addition, the cold war had an expanded Defense Department which took up a lot of Western's Production. Hollywood made a silly Doris Day movie about it, "Pillow Talk". > When my family moved in in 1950, we > had a two party line with a house two doors away. I think it used > reverse ring for the second phone. There was no ring code. When there > were enough pairs installed to provide private lines it was a low to > no cost switch. The telco didn't want party lines, it only provided > them because of necessity. Some new communities couldn't even get phones. Bell had kiosks on street corners with pay phones until they could run wires. The Pennsylvania Levittown had this problem. >Having a line was not a guarantee that you > could make a call, no dial tone problems were common during peak > demand times. Yes, it wasn't only a shortage of pairs to serve houses, but central office capacity. A postwar photo of a town's manual Central Office shows switchboard positions squeezed in places not normally used. Levittown PA had 17,000+ new homes and required a multi-story building to house the switch and business office. [Today the ESS #5 switch takes up a fraction of the #5 xbar floor space]. Outlying districts of cities were also built up and had a similar shortage of wires and switching capacity. Party lines were mandatory. if you could even get a phone line. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:50:05 -0500 From: "John F. Morse" <xanadu@example.invalid> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <ef5e8$4a3f0d7d$4aded8bf$14366@EVERESTKC.NET> Wesrock@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/20/2009 2:34:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > xanadu.bbs@example.invalid writes: > > >> 5XB could RP, MF and DP, in and out >> > > Was it euipped for RP in exchnages or dialing areas which never had any > Panel and likely no #1XB, such as Dallas, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, > San Antonio and Houston? > > Wes Leatherock > wesrock@aol.com > wleathus@yahoo.com I don't know. Never worked in those areas (except Dallas had a school I attended for 4XB, ETS and Teletype Data Speed 40) I can't remember if the Dallas 4A had or used RP in their senders, or if the DFW area had an XBT. RP is faster than DP, and I seem to believe a lot of COs int he DFW area were SXS. So it would seem logical that RP might have been the pulse of choice between Dallas 4XB, and any possible XBT, or something similar (XBT, Class 4, and/or 5XB) in Ft. Worth. That is, if they didn't use MF exclusively. I would almost believe any WECo 5XB office probably had identical common control equipment. Whether it was wired or optioned might be another thing. For instance, if there was no need for MF, then MF generators were likely not installed. -- John . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:55:32 -0500 From: "John F. Morse" <xanadu.bbs@example.invalid> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <5c93e$4a3f0ec6$4aded8bf$16662@EVERESTKC.NET> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > On Jun 20, 2:50 am, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote: > > >> But a few years later it was 180 degrees around. But Ma/WECO kept making >> the same pad for about 20 years.... >> > > I don't think the Western Electric 2500 set was in widespread > production that long. I'd guess production ceased around 1985 or > earlier due to divesture and newer competing sets on the market. I > don't think production started in earnest until roughly 1975 when > Touch Tone became more widely available and more people were willing > to pay for it. > > Also we must remember a "new" WE phone out of the box may have been > reconditioned, especially toward the later years. > > Lastly, internal designs changed. For example, Trimline and Princess > phones switched from incandescent dial lamps to LEDs. Perhaps later > model 2500s were upgraded, too. > > In any event, as mentioned, the Western Electric sets were extremely > durable, rugged, and long lasting. > > ***** Moderator's Note ***** > > Toward the end of the production, WECO made 2500 sets with an IC > Touch-Tone generator. I don't know when they switched over. > > Bill Horne > Another "unmarked" change in Touchtone pads happened in the Trimline's 2220 handset. The earlier ones were L-C type pads, but some later models had one IC. That was the one we hunted down for using the pad in a Bud Box to make ham radio repeater dials. ;-) -- John No Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Novell, Trend Micro, nor Ford products were used in the preparation or transmission of this message. The EULA sounds like it was written by a team of lawyers who want to tell me what I can't do. The GPL sounds like it was written by a human being, who wants me to know what I can do. . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:00:27 -0400 From: Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <ZfSdnTjQ2sYmW6LXnZ2dnUVZ_rxi4p2d@speakeasy.net> John F. Morse wrote: > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >> On Jun 20, 2:50 am, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote: >> >> >>> But a few years later it was 180 degrees around. But Ma/WECO kept making >>> the same pad for about 20 years.... >>> >> I don't think the Western Electric 2500 set was in widespread >> production that long. I'd guess production ceased around 1985 or >> earlier due to divesture and newer competing sets on the market. I >> don't think production started in earnest until roughly 1975 when >> Touch Tone became more widely available and more people were willing >> to pay for it. >> >> Also we must remember a "new" WE phone out of the box may have been >> reconditioned, especially toward the later years. >> >> Lastly, internal designs changed. For example, Trimline and Princess >> phones switched from incandescent dial lamps to LEDs. Perhaps later >> model 2500s were upgraded, too. >> >> In any event, as mentioned, the Western Electric sets were extremely >> durable, rugged, and long lasting. >> >> ***** Moderator's Note ***** >> >> Toward the end of the production, WECO made 2500 sets with an IC >> Touch-Tone generator. I don't know when they switched over. >> >> Bill Horne >> > > > Another "unmarked" change in Touchtone pads happened in the Trimline's > 2220 handset. > > The earlier ones were L-C type pads, but some later models had one IC. > > That was the one we hunted down for using the pad in a Bud Box to make > ham radio repeater dials. ;-) I have a four-column LC pad, which dropped into my lunch pail as I was walking by the Master Test Frame of a retired 5XB office. It came in very handy for repeater control, and saved me from a speeding ticket too. Bill W1AC (Filter QRM for direct replies) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:02:31 -0700 From: Steven Lichter <diespammers@ikillspammers.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <h1ov4t$tao$1@news.eternal-september.org> Bill Horne wrote: > John F. Morse wrote: >> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >>> On Jun 20, 2:50 am, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> But a few years later it was 180 degrees around. But Ma/WECO kept >>>> making >>>> the same pad for about 20 years.... >>>> >>> I don't think the Western Electric 2500 set was in widespread >>> production that long. I'd guess production ceased around 1985 or >>> earlier due to divesture and newer competing sets on the market. I >>> don't think production started in earnest until roughly 1975 when >>> Touch Tone became more widely available and more people were willing >>> to pay for it. >>> >>> Also we must remember a "new" WE phone out of the box may have been >>> reconditioned, especially toward the later years. >>> >>> Lastly, internal designs changed. For example, Trimline and Princess >>> phones switched from incandescent dial lamps to LEDs. Perhaps later >>> model 2500s were upgraded, too. >>> >>> In any event, as mentioned, the Western Electric sets were extremely >>> durable, rugged, and long lasting. >>> >>> ***** Moderator's Note ***** >>> >>> Toward the end of the production, WECO made 2500 sets with an IC >>> Touch-Tone generator. I don't know when they switched over. >>> >>> Bill Horne >>> >> >> >> Another "unmarked" change in Touchtone pads happened in the Trimline's >> 2220 handset. >> >> The earlier ones were L-C type pads, but some later models had one IC. >> >> That was the one we hunted down for using the pad in a Bud Box to make >> ham radio repeater dials. ;-) > > I have a four-column LC pad, which dropped into my lunch pail as I was > walking by the Master Test Frame of a retired 5XB office. It came in > very handy for repeater control, and saved me from a speeding ticket too. > > Bill W1AC > (Filter QRM for direct replies) > Security is just about to bust your door down. How did it help you get out of a speeding ticket, my Reserve Sheriff ID does not work all the time, but then I take it to court. -- The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? (c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:10:27 -0500 From: "John F. Morse" <xanadu@example.invalid> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Usenet newsgroups Message-ID: <a4e46$4a3f2053$4aded8bf$21810@EVERESTKC.NET> John Mayson wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> wrote: > >> Though I now use eternal-september.org (formerly Motzarella) for most NNTP >> purposes, Google Groups is useful for their archives. I recently located a >> series of articles circa 1992 in a comp.* group to answer a current question >> regarding hardware with which I was involved back then. >> > > I do agree that Google Groups is a useful archive. What I don't > understand is how Google could create such a wonderful interface for > GMail and such a lousy one for Google Groups. I tried to make GG my > primary conduit for USENET, but it was just too frustrating to use. > Alpine and an NNTP server work far better, IMHO. > > I know people who use GG are looked down upon across USENET. I'm not > sure how deserved this actually is. I don't think it is necessary the GG users, but the problem GG has with spam generation. They, like Hotmail, Yahoo, and other "throw-away" e-mail providers, allow "unknown" people to sign up for an account. The spammers know this, and use it to their advantage. Normally any ISP knows who you are, and can take care of any spam problems. GG is good if you need the "Way Back" capabilities to read an old message, but I, like you, don't like any Web-based "forum" interface. Some NNTP server installations filter out all GG articles. If you feel there is any worthiness in your articles, then posting in GG is not going to get the maximum exposure for your efforts. The NNTP server beats the Web all to pieces in usability (freedoms in score filtering, sorting, archiving, font selection, locale alphabets, specialized servers, download speed, spelling dictionaries, attachments, ....). Also, Usenet doesn't use a single server. It is a distributed service. The messages are on thousands of servers all over the world. What does this mean? Besides little chance of a lost message due to a crash, etc., someone who owns a Web server has the ability to do whatever they want with your messages. From simply denying them, removing them, or even changing your words to something else if they want. IOW, they have full censor powers. The Usenet system, being decentralized, will not suffer from censorship -- totally across Usenet that is. Yes, some groups (this is one) do have moderators, but I think they have better sense than to change anything a poster may have written in the body (and they do let you know when they have added something at the bottom). They are not financially tied to some Web server company, and do their moderation for love (and often get hate in return). Moderation is a necessary evil, if you don't want newsgroups bubbling over in flames like seen in many alt.* groups. -- John . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:52:30 -0400 From: ed <bernies@netaxs.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Answering machine with Caller ID needed Message-ID: <1245664350.4a3f545e05f8e@webmail.uslec.net> Perhaps one or more list members can save me a lot of time by offering their recommendations. I am seeking a reliable POTS answering machine that supports Caller ID over Call Waiting, User-recorded spoken names that play when associated callers are detected, a large legible LCD, and a flashing LED indicating when messages are waiting to be heard. This is for an elderly person. Given the poor manufacturing quality of customer-premises POTS equipment these days, I thought that Telecom Digest list members might offer their learned opinions on what models to consider. Thanks very much! -Ed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:03:57 -0700 From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Answering machine with Caller ID needed Message-ID: <y3N%l.34865$Dr4.12823@newsfe24.iad> ed wrote: > Perhaps one or more list members can save me a lot of time by offering their > recommendations. I am seeking a reliable POTS answering machine that supports > Caller ID over Call Waiting, User-recorded spoken names that play when > associated callers are detected, a large legible LCD, and a flashing LED > indicating when messages are waiting to be heard. This is for an elderly person. > > Given the poor manufacturing quality of customer-premises POTS equipment these > days, I thought that Telecom Digest list members might offer their learned > opinions on what models to consider. Thanks very much! > > -Ed > The Meridian 9516CW is a high quality machine that fills the bill. They aren't inexpensive and proof that you get what you pay for. I have several. The last one I purchased was marketed with the Ameritech label. http://www.3dtelecom.com/customer/product.php?productid=16149&cat=0&page=1 I paid $175 one year ago. You can find them refurbished for less money. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jun 2009 12:18:21 -0000 From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <20090622121821.2308.qmail@simone.iecc.com> >Bell deserves to have all their customers just leave Bell Canada and >get mobile service which includes touch-tone. Yeah, switching to Bell Mobility will sure teach them a lesson. By the way, GSM and CDMA mobile systems in use in North America don't use touchtone dialing. They pass the dialed number over a separate supervisory channel when you hit the send button. (That's why mobiles don't require 1+ before a 10 digit number, they know how many digits you've dialed when you hit send.) Once a call is in progress they do make tone sounds when you press the buttons so you can command voicemail and other IVR systems. R's, John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:46:08 +0000 (UTC) From: danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: "touch tone" on cell phones, was: Touch Tone Charges... Message-ID: <h1o5ff$nrl$1@reader1.panix.com> In <20090622121821.2308.qmail@simone.iecc.com> John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> writes: >By the way, GSM and CDMA mobile systems in use in North America don't >use touchtone dialing. They pass the dialed number over a separate >supervisory channel when you hit the send button. (That's why mobiles >don't require 1+ before a 10 digit number, they know how many digits >you've dialed when you hit send.) Once a call is in progress they do >make tone sounds when you press the buttons so you can command >voicemail and other IVR systems. Are those tones generated by the phone (and that you hear in the ear piece) actually sent over the air? That would cause ugly compression and time delay artifacts. I was under the impression that when you tapped the key, the "info", so to speak, was sent to the cellular switch and the "actual tone", again so to speak, was sent from there. thanks -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:54:54 -0700 From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Touch Tone Charges - Bell Canada Still Charges Extra $2.80 a month Message-ID: <2sQ%l.39057$QS.17956@newsfe18.iad> John Levine wrote: >>Bell deserves to have all their customers just leave Bell Canada and >>get mobile service which includes touch-tone. > > > Yeah, switching to Bell Mobility will sure teach them a lesson. > > By the way, GSM and CDMA mobile systems in use in North America don't > use touchtone dialing. They pass the dialed number over a separate > supervisory channel when you hit the send button. (That's why mobiles > don't require 1+ before a 10 digit number, they know how many digits > you've dialed when you hit send.) Once a call is in progress they do > make tone sounds when you press the buttons so you can command > voicemail and other IVR systems. > > R's, > John > The early analog AMPS treated pre-orgination dialing the same way. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jun 2009 11:10:52 -0400 From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Usenet newsgroups Message-ID: <h1o6ts$1v4$1@panix2.panix.com> John Mayson <john@mayson.us> wrote: > >I do agree that Google Groups is a useful archive. What I don't >understand is how Google could create such a wonderful interface for >GMail and such a lousy one for Google Groups. I tried to make GG my >primary conduit for USENET, but it was just too frustrating to use. >Alpine and an NNTP server work far better, IMHO. The worst part is that Google actually inherited a pretty good interface when they bought the archives from Altavista. However, they have repeatedly made changes to the interface over the intervening time period, and each one of the changes has degraded the utility of the system. On top of this the indices are now corrupted so a lot of compound searches no longer work correctly. My suspicion is that two things are going on: first of all, there is an attempt to make the Usenet interface look like the web search interface, which is a misguided idea. Secondly it seems like the Google Groups operation doesn't get a lot of respect within Google and seems to be a dumping ground for poorer-performing employees. >> 28 years (back to 1981) far exceeds most/all NNTP servers' retention and expiry >> policies. > >You bet! I just hope Google maintains it. They are, but not as well as Altavista did, I don't think. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:49:16 -0400 From: danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: US Supreme Court lets court case against AT&T continue Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0906221149020.11775@panix5.panix.com> note that this is NOT a decision on the case itself. --------- [wsj] The high court rejected an appeal from a unit of AT&T Corp., which has been trying to stop a class-action lawsuit over cell phone termination policies at the company. AT&T has tried to get the lawsuit, filed in West Virginia state courts, transferred to a federal venue by citing the Class Action Fairness Act of 2005, which sought to make it easier for companies to get lawsuits transferred out of state courts. The case is AT&T Mobility LLC v. Shorts, 08-1156. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124567014181036773.html _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:50:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Smith <marklsmith@yahoo.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Pulse dialing overhead, was: ANI vs. Caller ID Message-ID: <580898.66150.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Mark L. Smith http://smith.freehosting.net >>That is very interesting. I suppose the burbs you're talking about are >>in the western and southern parts of the state? >>At long last bizarre toll boundaries are finally starting to evaporate >>in RI. It's about time. Actually Northern suburbs (Saylesville Highlands which is part of Lincoln.) Mark L. 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