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Message Digest
Volume 28 : Issue 65 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
Re: VoIP and wireless networking
Re: VoIP and wireless networking
Re: Joint utility poles (was Re: Technical Demo turns political...)
Re: Technical Demo turns political 2/26/1909
Re: Technical Demo turns political 2/26/1909
Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:09:18 +1100
From: David Clayton <dcstar@myrealbox.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
Message-ID: <pan.2009.03.05.07.09.15.835370@myrealbox.com>
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:39:34 -0500, hancock4 wrote: .......
> I suspect many Telex users did not have the luxury of interconnecting a
> new computer as you did and found the retyping of source documents and
> punched tape handling rather tedious, as well as expensive in manpower.
.......
When I first got a job with Australia's (then monopoly) telco, Telecom I
started in the section that installed Telex machines (I was an audio
specialist, so it made sense to put me in that section...... NOT!).
This was at the time the first "Glass screen" Telex machines were
introduced in Australia, they were Sagem units from Germany with a small
CRT screen and - wait for it - the ability to put things on a floppy
disk!!!
This was back in 1982, and these things had their software in EEPROMS so
since I was the closest thing to an "IT geek" way back then (owning an
Osborne Executive) I got the job of erasing and then programming all of
these massive 8K chips (wow!, a chip that held 8K of data!!!) and
installing them in these virtual mini-computers that plugged into the
Telex network (which was still quite big back then).
There were still many (many!) mechanical Telex units in service, as well
as earlier Sagem machines that used punched tape and were just modern
equivalents of the fully mechanical devices...... ahhh the memories.....
RYRYRYRY...... ;-)
The anecdotal reason for the Telex network being so important back then -
even with Fax making big inroads - was that a lot of Japanese companies
would not do business with anyone without a Telex service, so we just kept
installing 'em.
--
Regards, David.
David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:12:01 +0100
From: Tor-Einar Jarnbjo <news@jarnbjo.de>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: VoIP and wireless networking
Message-ID: <49AF8951.8060704@jarnbjo.de>
1506 schrieb:
> Does anyone know if I should anticipate any issues with this
> arrangement?
Probably not. I've been using such a setup since I started using VoIP
some four years ago and have never had any issues with the WLAN link.
Unless you have an extremely fancy ISP service and very old WLAN
equipment or use the WLAN extensively for internal high-bandwith data
transfers, the ISP link will be the limiting factor and the WLAN link
will have more than enough capacity to not cause any problems. If I look
at my current setup, the WLAN link adds <1 ms latency to the overall
18ms or 55ms latency all the way to the two VoIP providers I'm using and
it's obvious, that it doesn't matter. The 54Mbps WLAN offers "in real"
at least 25Mbps, which is also a factor or two more than what most ISPs
are able to deliver.
Independent of the functionality and VoIP, you should of course consider
your WLAN security settings, but if it's important for you that noone
listens to your phone conversations, you wouldn't have used a POTS line
either. Breaking even the weakest WLAN encryption is probably much
harder than to listen into a regular phone line.
Tor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:06:40 +1100
From: Colin <colins@swiftdsl.com.au>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: VoIP and wireless networking
Message-ID: <49afc051$1_9@news.peopletelecom.com.au>
David Clayton wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:28:20 -0500, 1506 wrote:
>
>> I am considering running my VoIP system on the far side of a wireless
>> link. i.e. My internet service comes thru a cable interface into which
>> I plug a router with wireless capability. I plan to use a remote
>> wireless bridge into which I will plug my TPAs/ATAs.
>>
>> Does anyone know if I should anticipate any issues with this
>> arrangement?
>>
> VoIP is very sensitive to latency, and adding Wireless links just makes
> this sort of thing worse.
>
> You may also need to ensure that all your network equipment has QoS
> capability to ensure that your voice packets get priority otherwise that
> could be another quality issue when you are on calls.
>
I use Skype via a wireless [802.]11g link to my router, and while the video *sometimes* pixellates,
depending on the quality of the line, the speech quality is fine - better with a headset than with
the built-in mike and speakers, but still quite OK, negligible latency, unless it's an international
call. It's no different with an [802.]11n link.
Colin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:18:08 +1100
From: Colin <colins@swiftdsl.com.au>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Joint utility poles (was Re: Technical Demo turns political...)
Message-ID: <49afc301_6@news.peopletelecom.com.au>
Neal McLain wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
> > Historically around here the lines were--top electric,
> > middle phone, lower cable.
>
> I wrote:
>
> > Actually, it's top electric, middle cable TV, and phone
> > in the lowest position.
>
> Paul <pssawyer@comcast.net.INVALID> wrote:
>
> > With municipal fire alarm (and other city communications)
> > next under electric, where such systems still exist.
>
> Or communications and signaling circuits owned by county
> governments, state governments, MUDs, IXCs, CLECs, non-
> local ILECs, non-local franchised CATVs, power companies,
> railroad companies, banks, and who-knows-what-else.
>
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
> > The phone lines were relatively high up, and when new
> > cable lines were installed to provide cable TV, the only
> > place for them to go was lower. Unless of course the
> > whole pole was redone.
>
> Does "redone" mean rearranging existing cables on the
> existing pole, or setting a new pole?
>
> Typically, power and telephone companies rearrange ("make
> ready") their facilities to accommodate CATV above telco.
> If they can't make room for CATV on a pole, they replace
> the pole. Of course, they charge the entire "fully
> allocated cost" to the CATV company.
>
> What you describe is an unusual situation. I'd like to see
> a photo of one of the poles.
'Typically' depends on where you live.
Here in Sydney the power is at the top, the phone line below, the
first cable company (Telstra or Optus) below that, the second cable
company (Optus or Telstra) below that. (I can almost touch some of
them where they droop in the middle.) When there was a bush fire the
whole lot went, poles and all, then they strung them back just the
same :-(
Colin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:38:03 -0800
From: AES <siegman@stanford.edu>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Technical Demo turns political 2/26/1909
Message-ID: <siegman-0583D7.10373305032009@news.stanford.edu>
> >In high-density urban areas, the dominant power company and the
> >ILEC sometimes have reciprocal agreements: each company can
> >attach to the other's poles without cash changing hands. This
> >situation seems to be rooted in history, based on informal
> >arrangements that have evolved over the years.
>
> Back in 1960, I was attending new Bell System employee orientation in
> the Boston, MA area. We were told that in metro Boston, the power
> company and N.E. Telephone paired off similar-sized suburban cities.
> In one city, the power comppany owned all the poles, and in the other
> city telco owned all the power poles. That way, if a pole got
> damaged, the emergency agencies didn't have to figure out who owned
> what pole. I assume that this also eliminated paying each other for
> pole space.
With all these posts about poles (is that a pun?) I have to pass along
two long-ago anecdotes from my younger brother, a lifelong very
blue-collar lineman for Pacific Bell (and now long deceased; smoking is
in fact a bad habit):
1) Official Bell System motto, from line crew training sessions:
"No job is so important, and no service is so vital, that
we cannot take time to do our work safely."
Line crew version, as quoted and practiced in the field:
"No job is so important, and no service is so vital, that
we cannot take time out for coffee."
2) My brother's crew gets a new young hotshot crew chief, who's going
to get more productivity from his crew than any other competing crews,
and push himself up the management ladder. A pole replacement is in
progress, shifting lines from an old pole to a new one, as described in
an earlier post.
My brother, wearing climbing belt and spikes, is up near the top of the
old pole, shifting over the last wire to the new pole, when the old pole
starts to vibrate noticeably. He looks down; the hotshot crew chief is
already chainsawing into the base of the pole he's at the top of.
As related subsequently, over a beer, the vibration was substantial
enough that he very nearly accidentally dropped the heavy tool he was
using at the time, straight down the pole -- but he decided not to.
He spent the last years of his career down in manholes in the base of
the piers for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, below water level in
some case, I think, and also in Maiden Lane in San Francisco with the
manhole cover back in place, and traffic running overhead, splicing
fiber optic cables.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:51:33 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Technical Demo turns political 2/26/1909
Message-ID: <90554957-ca27-4e1b-839f-69f82e9da45c@w9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 5, 5:17 pm, AES <sieg...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> He spent the last years of his career down in manholes in the base of
> the piers for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, below water level in
> some case, I think, and also in Maiden Lane in San Francisco with the
> manhole cover back in place, and traffic running overhead, splicing
> fiber optic cables.
Thanks for the post. Interesting stuff.
After the Second Avenue switching center fire in the 1970s in NYC,
they rushed in men to resplice wires to switches rushed into the
building. Fortunately one floor was empty so they put in a new ESS to
serve, the older switches would be manually cleaned contact to
contact.
The splicers in the basement worked on planks, very crowded in.
Apparently once in, everyone was basically locked in. Undoubtedly not
the most pleasant working conditions.
In reading newspaper articles of the time, I noticed several things:
. Area businessmen were terrified to be without a phone since crime
was a problem. NYC had a rough time of it in those days, lot of urban
problems, fortunately the city is much safer today.
. There had been many fires in switching offices recently, causes
unknown but possibly arson. It wouldn't surprise me if that were the
case. Once again, the city was not in the best of shape and there
were considerable tensions in the air over urban issues; the Bell
System definitely got its share of it in those days. (The 1974
version of the film Pelham 1-2-3 somewhat reflects those times.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:15:28 -0600
From: Jim Haynes <haynes@giganews.com>
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
Message-ID: <slrngr0n8l.5nq.haynes@localhost.localdomain>
On 2009-03-05, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
> I suspect this slow speed was a reason for WU's decline. For example,
> in 1975 GE Timesharing offered its own ASR teleprinter that ran at 300
> speed (ok, today that's slow but then it was three times as fast.)
Did G.E. have an ASR? I'm aware of their KSR, the G.E. Datanet 300, but
I didn't know they had an ASR model.
>
> Interesting. Western Union tried the same thing. Their facsimile
> service starting in the 1930s and they tried to push it big in the
> early 1960s, not just documents, but weather maps and related
> material. I have no idea of what their resolution or transmission
> speed was.
I don't think they ever offered large format like weather maps as a
public service. They made a weather map system for the Air Force, and
that might have led to contracts for additional system for other
customers, but I don't think they ever got to the point where you could
regularly send fax messages from one point to another from very many
points.
>
>
> Thanks again for your post.
>
>
> I suspect many Telex users did not have the luxury of interconnecting
> a new computer as you did and found the retyping of source documents
> and punched tape handling rather tedious, as well as expensive in
> manpower.
>
> (IBM offered a punched card to Baudot paper tape converter or
> transmitter, but by the 1970s that was still old fashioned and of
> course required a mainframe to punch out cards.)
>
> Now, WU extensively advertised advanced communications. But I don't
> know how much that they actually offered or at what cost or quality.
> I can't help but suspect that even in the 1970s WU offered mostly 110
> or even slower service and only through paper tape. As mentioned, in
> 1960 what you describe would be considered pretty slick for an
> overseas transmission, but in 1975 not so much.
>
> (I seem to recall AT&T laying a major new Atlantic cable in that era
> that greatly boosted overseas capacity and resulted in a significant
> reduction in rates. Around that time ESS and even No. 5 xbar in NYC
> offered IDDD. Anyone recall more?)
>
--
jhhaynes at earthlink dot net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:38:31 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Telex and TWX rates 1970s
Message-ID: <ea8a6222-a9a2-4180-beb6-62e10ee0abd3@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 5, 6:56 pm, Jim Haynes <hay...@giganews.com> wrote:
> Did G.E. have an ASR? I'm aware of their KSR, the G.E. Datanet 300, but
> I didn't know they had an ASR model.
I should qualify what I said because I have may erred on the term
"ASR".
I believe the machine was called a "GE Terminet". It had a keyboard,
printer (a revolving band, I believe), and a paper tape punch and
reader.
However, it did not have the automatic answer capability. When we
used the machine, we had to take the telephone receiver and shove it
into the acoustical coupler; there was no direct connection to the
line.
I get confused--does ASR refer to the paper tape capability, or the
ability to automatically answer incoming calls? I thought it meant
the paper tape, and the KSR was a unit without paper tape.
------------------------------
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