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Message Digest
Volume 29 : Issue 37 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: OT: NASA, Bell Labs, NSA, and the Voynich Manuscript
Re:Some more sites for telephone historians
Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Re: Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Re: Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Re: Where to buy 5-pr cable in small quantity (100')?
in Italy, a telco local exchange auctioned on eBay
Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Size of NPAs and California Dialing History
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans
Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Re: dialing plans, was at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
Re: dialing plans, was at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
Re: AT&T vs. SBC
Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Re: Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Re: Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Status of 737 area code
====== 28 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ======
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See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 02:04:49 -0500
From: T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: OT: NASA, Bell Labs, NSA, and the Voynich Manuscript
Message-ID: <MPG.25d58d1654813e93989c60@news.eternal-september.org>
In article <hkeshu$tla$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
diespammers@killspammers.com said...
> The area I am talking about is pretty remote, the choices are
> dial-up,and satellite, I talked to a friend with AT&T who is over
> DSL and he said they have no plans for DSL, but U-verse is planned
> in most of the area, but some people still will not be able to get
> it.
My father lives in Oklawaha, FL and there isn't any broadband there
either. He's stuck on dial-up. He's thinking of moving back to the
Ocala area (I actually like Ocala and imagine it's come up quite
nicely since I was there over 15 years ago.)
And at least Ocala is served by Cox and they do offer broadband there.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 02:19:09 -0500
From: T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re:Some more sites for telephone historians
Message-ID: <MPG.25d590717a097af989c61@news.eternal-september.org>
In article <6Mwan.49135$_96.6909@newsfe02.iad>, sam@coldmail.com says...
> My dentist is still using a 25-pair (1A or 1A2) key system installed
> by Pacific Bell probably in the late 1970s. I asked his daughter
> who owned the equipment today. She thought her dad does, but didn't
> know for sure. I hope he isn't still paying at&t for monthly
> rental.
My friend's vet is using a 25 pair system too. It looks like ITT gear.
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:10:49 -0500
From: Bill Horne <bill@horneQRM.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Message-ID: <V5GdnerUkc-IAvbWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.net>
According to Fox News blogger Claudia Cowan, a San Francisco legislator
is trying to change the distribution of the local "White Pages" from the
existing "Everyone gets one" model to an "Opt In" model in order to
benefit the environment.
This seems like an easy choice when the publications are separately
bound, but here in the Boston area, suburban phone book white pages are
in the same binding as the Yellow Pages, so it's not clear if the
savings would be nearly as high in this area.
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/02/04/green-legislation-targets-white-pages/?test=latestnews
Bill Horne
(Filter QRM for direct replies)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:37:47 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Message-ID: <fe3243ba-cc41-4ee9-9a43-f87c16ac249e@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
On Feb 4, 10:10 pm, Bill Horne <b...@horneQRM.net> wrote:
> According to Fox News blogger Claudia Cowan, a San Francisco legislator
> is trying to change the distribution of the local "White Pages" from the
> existing "Everyone gets one" model to an "Opt In" model in order to
> benefit the environment.
I have a landfill near me and I see first hand how much waste
Americans generate. It's enormous.
None the less, I'm opposed to "opt in" to get phone books. That would
soon lead to charging for the books. Plenty of people prefer the
convenience of a printed page, on which they could underline listings
and write notes and remains permanent. For large businesses with
Centrex, I can see the list of departments to narrow down who to call
directly.
On line listings are notoriously inaccurate, yet people seem to think
because it's "on line" it's correct. My on-line home phone listing
erroneously shows me living in a town 15 miles away. It also shows me
having a telephone line which I disconnected over five years ago.
People use those listings and have trouble calling me even though I am
properly listed in the telephone directory or from 411.
Unfortunately, distant 411 services can use out of date or erroneous
sources, too.
If the telephone industry wants to go green, stop requiring the
massive amount of information on a phone bill. I have unlimited
national service, yet my phone bill is so thick it requires extra
postage to mail, despite double sided printing!
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:46:48 EST
From: Wesrock@aol.com
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Green Legislation Targets White Pages
Message-ID: <1907a.255bf0de.389e15f8@aol.com>
In a message dated 2/5/2010 9:27:59 AM Central Standard Time,
bill@horneQRM.net writes:
> According to Fox News blogger Claudia Cowan, a San Francisco legislator
> is trying to change the distribution of the local "White Pages" from the
> existing "Everyone gets one" model to an "Opt In" model in order to
> benefit the environment.
AT&T is already doing that in several cities, including Oklahoma
City, where I live.
Wes Leatherock
wesrock@aol.com
wleathus@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:36:56 -0500
From: Carl Navarro <cnavarro@wcnet.org>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Where to buy 5-pr cable in small quantity (100')?
Message-ID: <dldom5pah9e6jo8r14rb9qgptora2qgllt@4ax.com>
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:24:02 -0800 (PST), Heath Roberts
<htroberts@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find 5-pair drop-type cable in short
> lengths? I'd prefer an inside cable, but could use jelly-filled if
> that's all I can find... All I can find are 3-pr category 3 and 4-pr
> category 5.
I don't know where you're looking, but start with the basics. Cable
comes in inside and outside plant varieties. Inside wire can be PVC
(type CMR) or Plenum (CMP). Outside wire can be aerial or buried with
messenger and clad or filled or both.
Since you asked for INSIDE wire, try looking at some manufacturers.
Comeman,CommScope, Essex, Belden, Berk-Tek, General, Mohawk come to
mind. You'll find that cable comes in 2,3,4,6,12,25,50 and 100 pairs.
Category 3 is basic twisted, and there is Cat-5e,6 and beyond.
Now, addressing your question, SIX pair cable CMR carries a wholesale
price of about $160 per thousand. It usually comes in gray. I'm
guessing a short quantity can be had for about $30 per hundred with an
additional shipping charge.
We usually stock it on our shelf (not until April or May. You might
try calling around to telephone installers in your area to see if they
have any.
Carl
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:17:46 -0800
From: "John Meissen" <john@meissen.org>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: in Italy, a telco local exchange auctioned on eBay
Message-ID: <20100205191746.811D6340C0@john>
This came through today on a Network Neutrality mailing list I'm on
(NNSQuad http://www.nnsquad.org/):
Subject: [ NNSquad ] in Italy, a telco local exchange auctioned on eBay
From: Stefano Quintarelli
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:36:32 +0100
in Italy, an incumbent's telco local exchange is being auctioned on eBay
is someone aware of a similar auction anywhere in the world or is this a
first time ?
The previous management of Telecom Italia (Italy's incumbent and (still)
one of the largest 5-6 telcos wordlwide) sold local exchange's buildings
to a real estate fund, participated by some of the most well-known
international investment banks (very present in the press in the last
months).
The properties are rented by Telecom Italia (quite obviously).
The (relative) majority shareholder of Telecom Italia was a company
controlled by Pirelli (the tyre manufacturer) and the controlling
shareholder of Pirelli was also the chairman of Telecom Italia. Pirelli
then sold their ownerships of Telecom Italia and therefore he stepped
down from chairmanship.
The real estate fund entered an agreement with Pirelli Real Estate, the
real estate branch of Pirelli.
Now, the local agency of Pirelli RE is auctioning on eBay the Exchange
of Pula, a popular holiday resort in Sardinia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pula,_Italy
http://www.sardegnaturismo.it/en/index.html
--
blog.quintarelli.it
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:00:24 -0700
From: "Anthony Bellanga" <anthonybellanga@gonetoearth.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F201002051300.AA00240243@gonetoearth.com>
On Fri, 5 Feb 2010, John Levine <john@iecc.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Lisa Hancock <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> New Jersey has 7 digit dialing, though one can dial 10 digits and the
>> call will still go through.
> Well, actually, not really. You must live in south or west Jersey.
> AC 609, 908, and 856 are not overlaid and still have 7D dialing within
> the NPA. 201/551, 862/973, and 732/848 are overlaid and require 10D
> or 1+10D.
>> Ironically, some area codes in NJ are big enough to cross a LATA so
>> a 7 digit number could be a full toll call, yet a 10 digit number to
>> a nearby area code could be a local call.
> Some -> one, A/C 609. The little part of 609 along the coast from
> south of Toms River to Cape May is a separate LATA from the rest of
> 609 and 856. We have a beach house in LBI so it's a 7D inter-LATA
> toll call to my father's house in Princeton.
Yes, the 609 NPA is split between the "Atlantic Coastal NJ" LATA #220,
and the "Delaware Valley NJ" LATA #222. (NOTE that this has NOTHING to
do with the "State" of Delaware which is ENTIRELY included within the
southeast Pennsylvania/Philadelphia PA Metro LATA #228).
The "Atlantic Coastal NJ" LATA is entirely within NPA 609 though.
And the "Delaware Valley NJ" LATA covers not only part of NPA 609,
but also ALL of NPA 856. The Camden NJ area and the Philadelphia PA
are in separate LATAs, but the ILEC side of Verizon does maintain that
grandfathered option for "corridor dialing" between the two, using
"dialaround" codes 1010NJB from NJ to PA, and 1010BPA from PA to NJ.
There is ONE other example of inter-LATA calling within the same
area code in New Jersey. Stroudsburg NJ is at the NJ/PA state line,
and is associated with the "Northeast PA" LATA #232, NOT the North Jersey
LATA #224. It even gets dial tone from the Verizon (Bell of Pennsylvania)
central office in Stroudsburg PA.
SRBGPAST841 is the CLLI for the NJ-side, 908-841, but note the 'PA' in
the CLLI, indicating that the central office switch is in Pennsylvania,
not New Jersey.
SRBGPASTDS0 is the CLLI for the PA-side, mostly the 570-42x office codes.
SRBGPASTDS0/841 is a Nortel DMS-100.
Tannersville PA is also a part of the Stroudsburg PA rate center area,
but has its own Verizon (Bell of PA) switch and office code block:
TNVLPATADS0, a DMS-100 for 570-619, 620, 629, 688.
CLECs and Wireless also have their own 570-NXX codes in the Stroudsburg PA
rate center area.
There is local calling between the PA and NJ sides of Stroudsburg, but
I don't know if it is (1+) ten-digits mandatory or if it is "protected"
seven-digits.
The NJ-side of Stroudsburg does have some inter-LATA local (EAS) calling
with Blairstown NJ and Columbia NJ, both in the North Jersey LATA, and
both of these communities being served by old United/Sprint/Embarq side
of the new merged CenturyLink (CenturyTel bought out Embarq last year).
The NJ-side of Stroudsburg also has inter-state intra-LATA local calling
not only with the PA-side of Stroudsburg, but also with Bushkill PA also
Verizon (Bell of PA), but I don't know how many digits are required. But
the PA-side of Stroudsburg has intra-state intra-LATA local calling with
several additional Pennsylvania exchanges that the NJ-side of Stroudsburg
does not have.
All of the rest of Northern NJ is in overlay with mandatory (1+) ten-digit
dialing: 201/551, 973/862, 732/848.
908 (North Jersey LATA except for Stroudsburg NJ), 609 (split between
all of the Atlantic Coastal NJ LATA and some of the Delaware Valley NJ
LATA), and 856 (the remainder of the Delaware Valley NJ LATA) are not
yet overlaid and still have seven-digit dialing within the area codes.
Pennsylvania's 570 area code (and 717 and 814 as well) are currently in
"area code relief planning", and the Pa.PUC is presently reviewing such
"relief planning". It is likely that two or even all three will be
overlaid.
(582 maybe? for 814 ; 272 maybe? for 570 ; 223 maybe? for 717)
I would expect that when NJ 908, 856, 609 finally need "relief",
that all three will be overlaid.
>> Are there any places left in North America that still allow only 5
>> digit dialing?
> Only PBXes.
>> I have no idea of how many or few places have gone to mandatory 10
>> digits in North America today. I suspect in terms of population
>> density it's quite high while in terms of land area it's rather low.
> See this handy chart from NANPA.
>
> http://www.nanpa.com/nas/public/npasRequiring10DigitReport.do?method=displayNpasRequiring10DigitReport
You can't always take a NANPA document like this one at face value.
It is very generic. There can always be "undocumented" local exceptions
here/there.
However, the entire provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, and Quebec
are in mandatory ten-digit dialing, even the remote areas in the north.
And BC and AB are completely in overlays now. Quebec's 819 has mandatory
ten-digit dialing but won't be overlaid with 873 for another few years
now; the 450 in Quebec also has mandatory ten-digit dialing but won't be
overlaid with 579 until later this year.
With the exception of 807 in western Ontario, everything else in Ontario
will be in mandatory ten-digit dialing after the 613/343 and 705/249
overlays are put into effect (613/343 in southeast Ontario later this
year, 705/249 in northeast Ontario early next year).
The entire state of West Virginia is in overlay/mandatory-ten, 304/681.
ALL of Puerto Rico is in overlay/mandatory-ten, 787/939.
ALL of the Dominican Republic is in overlay/mandatory-ten, 809/829/849.
ALL of Maryland is in overlay/mandatory-ten, 301/240/(227) and 410/443/
(667).
ALL of Oregon, as of a week from now, will be in overlay/mandatory-ten,
503/971, 541/(458).
ALL of Connecticut has mandatory ten-digit local dialing. Southwestern CT
has an overlay, 203/(475). The remainder of CT is 860, not yet overlaid,
but is expected to be overlaid (959 is the overlay code) in about a year,
but it does have mandatory ten-digit dialing.
It is likely that the entire province of Manitoba will have an overlay
with associated mandatory-ten in a few years, 204/(431).
Eastern Nebraska is to be overlaid next year and have mandatory ten-
digits,
402/(531).
Northeastern Oklahoma has been approved for an overlay next year,
918/(539), along with mandatory ten-digits.
The northern/eastern/southern/southwestern edges of Arkansas will be
overlaid and have mandatory ten-digits in 2013, 870/(327).
Two overlays in mostly rural parts of Wisconsin have been approved,
along with mandatory ten-digits --
715/(534) later this year, 920/(274) for 2012.
Large parts of (mostly rural) Mississippi has an overlay since 2005,
601/(769).
ALL of northern Georgia has several overlays, Atlanta Metro and outlying
rural areas.
Most of northeastern Texas has several overlays, the Dallas and Fort
Worth Metro areas and also outlying rural areas.
California has begun to adopt overlays. Two years ago, they "re" approved
the previously postponed 760/442 split in eastern and parts of southern
California, but after a successful grass-roots effort by those who would
have had to change from 760 to 442 in the northern and eastern suburbs
of San Diego, the Ca.PUC reversed their split decision, and last year,
implemented a 760/442 overlay, along with associated (1+)ten-digits
mandatory. (Cellphones don't have to key the 1+, but do have to use
ten-digits).
The 760 area code is the largest geographically in California, which
can trace itself back to the old (1950s/60s/70s-era) 714 area code, that
spans much of the border with Nevada in the "Death Valley" area as well
as Victorville, Palm Springs, and some northern and eastern suburbs of
San Diego. While it isn't 100% "official", the Ca.PUC has indicated that
since the largest area code in California, 760, has now been overlaid,
it will unlikely that there will be any more splits in the state -- all
future area code "relief" in the state will be overlays.
Even though there have been rather few new area codes introduced in the
past several years when compared to the later 1990s and very early 200s,
the only actual "splits" implemented have been the following, everything
else being overlays (or in two cases, American Samoa 684, Sint Maarten in
the Dutch Caribbean 721, being migrations to the NANP +1 from their old
country codes):
a three-way split of 915 in western Texas in 2003
(El Paso retained 915, Midland/Odessa/etc. split to 432,
Abilene/Sweetwater/etc. and San Angelo/etc. split to 325)
909/951 in 2004 in California
(Riverside changing to 951, San Bernardino retaining 909)
505/575 in 2007/08 in New Mexico
(Albuquerque, Santa Fe, northwestern quadrant retaining 505,
the "rest-of-state" changing to 575)
and the only "pending" split at the moment is for 270 in western Kentucky
for 2011, the "far-western" part of 270 changing to 364.
In addition to the "reversal" of the initially approved split of 760 in
California, turning it into the overlay that took effect in 2009, the
Salt Lake City metro area (801) was to have been split, but that also
was changed into an overlay effective in 2009. When the WV-PSC initially
approved a split for relief for 304, there was such an outcry, including
the governor, that within a week, the WV-PSC reversed itself and approved
the overlay that took effect in 2009. And the 818/747 relief that was
approved in 1999 as a split, but with no implementation dates announced
at that time, however in 2008, the Ca.PUC approved an overlay that took
effect in 2009.
This is only a snapshot of some of the areas that have gone overlay,
or at least mandatory ten-digits. BUT is IS and WILL CONTINUE to be
the growing trend. The US and Canada will eventually be all mandatory
ten-digits, even though it isn't there "yet".
A/B
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:57:39 -0800
From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <pv0bn.49279$_96.13905@newsfe02.iad>
Anthony Bellanga wrote:
> The 760 area code is the largest geographically in California, which
> can trace itself back to the old (1950s/60s/70s-era) 714 area code,
> that spans much of the border with Nevada in the "Death Valley" area
> as well as Victorville, Palm Springs, and some northern and eastern
> suburbs of San Diego. While it isn't 100% "official", the Ca.PUC has
> indicated that since the largest area code in California, 760, has
> now been overlaid, it will unlikely that there will be any more
> splits in the state -- all future area code "relief" in the state
> will be overlays.
When it was the orignal 714 NPA you could make a 7 digit call from the
town of Chula Vista on the Mexican border to all of the San Diego
area, all of Orange County, all of the metro Inland Empire, Palm
Springs area, east to Arizona, and up the Eastern Sierra to just south
of Minden, NV. That may have been the largest NPA in the country at
the time.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:15:55 -0600
From: John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <6645152a1002051715s70f26084g369e43a4b1e60b1e@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com> wrote:
>
> When it was the orignal 714 NPA you could make a 7 digit call from the
> town of Chula Vista on the Mexican border to all of the San Diego
> area, all of Orange County, all of the metro Inland Empire, Palm
> Springs area, east to Arizona, and up the Eastern Sierra to just south
> of Minden, NV. Â That may have been the largest NPA in the country at
> the time.
Doesn't 907 have every one beat?
--
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:21:38 -0700
From: "Anthony Bellanga" <anthonybellanga@gonetoearth.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Size of NPAs and California Dialing History
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F201002051921.AA21380257@gonetoearth.com>
On Friday, 05 February 2010, Sam Spade replied in
"Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)":
> When it [760] was the original 714 NPA you could make a 7 digit call
> from the town of Chula Vista on the Mexican border to all of the
> San Diego area, all of Orange County, all of the metro Inland Empire,
> Palm Springs area, east to Arizona, and up the Eastern Sierra to just
> south of Minden, NV.
Ummmm..... in the 1950s (if you had DDD), and throughout the 1960s/70s
and even 1980s (after 619 split off), SXS towns DID have to dial a 1+
(or 112+ in the earliest days of DDD if they had it in the 1950s/early
1960s). After SXS offices in the more rural parts of California were
replaced by ESS and Digital, California "mostly" adopted a statewide
dialing plan of 7-digits home-NPA regardless of local vs. toll.
(However, there probably are some independent telcos in these rural
areas which require 1+ and the home-NPA before 7D for toll, despite what
NANPA's "dialing rules" lists show, which is VERY generic; there are
ALWAYS going to be local exceptions which NANPA doesn't have documented).
The 7D or 1+10D dialing plan for (most of) California came into general
use in the early 1990s. But 1+ (or 112+) before 7D on home-NPA toll calls
_WAS VERY MUCH IN USE_ from SXS areas (and also from #5XB and probably
ESS/Digital offices that were mixed in with historical SXS areas) in the
state (except in Los Angeles Metro which had its own SAMA/SATT), during
the 1960s/70s and even 1980s, and even the late 1950s for those places
which could originate a DDD call.
> That [714] may have been the largest NPA in the country at the time.
Well, if you ignore the state of Alaska (907).
And if you don't confine yourself to the US, there are several Canadian
provinces that are larger than the 714 of the 1951 thru 1982 timeframe,
which at that time had one and one NPA code, such as British Columbia
(604),
Alberta (403), Saskatchewan (306), Manitoba (204), and if you're referring
to the geographic size of an NPA, not a single-NPA state/province, there's
807 and 705 in Ontario, and 819 and 418 in Quebec, all of which are/were
probably much larger than the 714 of the 1951-82 period. There's also 709
for Newfoundland/Labrador, a rather large province/NPA geographically as
well.
Also, until 1997, Quebec's 819 extended into the eastern and Arctic
northern parts of the Northwest Territories (including what is now
the territory of Nunavut), and Alberta's 403 extended into Yukon Territory
and the southern/western parts of the Northwest Territories. In 1997,
Yukon and all of the NWT (including the imminently-splitting-off-Nunavut)
split off from their sharing from AB's 403 and PQ's 819, into their own
new 867 area code.
But even within "CONUS", don't forget about Oregon (503) before its
first split of 1995, Nevada (702) until its 1998 split, Arizona (602)
until its 1995 split, New Mexico (505) until its 2007/08 split, Colorado
(303) until its 1988 split, Utah (801) until its 1997 split, Montana
(406) still to this day, Idaho (208) still to this day, Wyoming (307)
still to this day. I tend to think that all of these might be, or have
been, geographically larger than the 714 NPA of the 1951-82 period. I
don't know if North Dakota (701) and South Dakota (605) both still just
those area codes to this day, are larger than the "old" 714 though.
Other states as well most likely have/had NPAs that are/were
geographically larger than the old 714, the current 760/442, even after
some were split, since the resulting new NPA code usually covers the
large rural geographic/low populated region post-split.
But I do tend to think that 714 (1951-82), 619 (1982-97), 760 (1997-2009),
760/442 in overlay (2009->present) would be the largest geographic area
code within the entire state of California though.
A/B
Date: 5 Feb 2010 23:43:31 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <20100205234331.9034.qmail@simone.iecc.com>
>Tannersville PA is also a part of the Stroudsburg PA rate center area,
>but has its own Verizon (Bell of PA) switch and office code block:
>TNVLPATADS0, a DMS-100 for 570-619, 620, 629, 688.
Well, sure, it has a giant ever growing outlet mall and assorted support
businesses.
>There is local calling between the PA and NJ sides of Stroudsburg, but
>I don't know if it is (1+) ten-digits mandatory or if it is "protected"
>seven-digits.
I would be astonished if it were not 1+10D, the NANPA dialing guide
says it is, and we don't have protected dialing anywhere else in NJ.
The guide says there is 7D local dialing to other NPAs in 208 in
Idaho, 270, 502 in Kentucky, 218, 320, 507 in Minnesota, 406 in
Montana, 701 in ND, 308 and 402 in Nebraska, 405, 580, 918 in
Oklahoma, 605 in South Dakota, 615, 931 in Tennessee, 435 in Utah, and
307 in Wyoming. All of those states have toll alerting, so I don't
know whether the prefixes are protected, or they have wacky dialing
plans where they arrange the prefixes so a single place never has
local calling to the same NNX in two area codes.
>And BC and AB are completely in overlays now. Quebec's 819 has mandatory
>ten-digit dialing but won't be overlaid with 873 for another few years
>now;
That's probably because they used to have permissive dialing into 613
in the Ottawa area, and going directly to 10D makes it less likely
that people will misdial.
R's,
John
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:36:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "Julian Thomas" <jt@jt-mj.net>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <100.a8960c009cc76c4b.010@jt-mj.net>
On 5 Feb 2010 23:43:31 -0000 John Levine wrote:
> I would be astonished if it were not 1+10D, the NANPA dialing guide
> says it is, and we don't have protected dialing anywhere else in NJ.
Years back there used to be protected dialling in the Washington DC
metro area covering neighboring MD and Va. Is this still the case, or
is it all 10 digit by now?
--
Julian Thomas: jt@jt-mj.net http://jt-mj.net
In the beautiful Genesee Valley of Western New York State!
-- --
Uncle Ed's Rule of Thumb: Never use your thumb for a rule.
You'll either hit it with a hammer or get a splinter in it.
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:15 -0700
From: "Anthony Bellanga" <anthonybellanga@gonetoearth.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F201002051926.AA26150260@gonetoearth.com>
On Friday, 05 February 2010, John Levine replied:
> Anthony Bellanga wrote:
>> There is local calling between the PA and NJ sides of Stroudsburg,
>> but I don't know if it is (1+) ten-digits mandatory or if it is
>> "protected" seven-digits.
> I would be astonished if it were not 1+10D, the NANPA dialing guide
> says it is, and we don't have protected dialing anywhere else in NJ.
> The guide says there is 7D local dialing to other NPAs in 208 in Idaho;
> 270, 502 in Kentucky; 218, 320, 507 in Minnesota; 406 in Montana;
> 701 in ND; 308 and 402 in Nebraska; 405, 580, 918 in Oklahoma; 605 in
> South Dakota; 615, 931 in Tennessee; 435 in Utah; and 307 in Wyoming.
> All of those states have toll alerting, so I don't know whether the
> prefixes are protected, or they have wacky dialing plans where they
> arrange the prefixes so a single place never has local calling to the
> same NNX in two area codes.
Well, speaking of "wacky dialing plans", I thought that some of the
communities in southern NJ which were within various local (EAS)
dialing arrangements that ultimately cross what is now (since 1999)
the 609/856 NPA split line were very vocal to the NJ-BPU (Board of
Public Utilities), and as such the NJ-BPU ordered that this was to be
protected 7-digit local (EAS) dialing across that split-line. Maybe
this was something proposed but never came about though, but I do
remember something about the "vocal locals" in this part of NJ when
Bell Atlantic and NANPA were preparing for the 609/856 NPA split back
then.
But again, NANPA's dialing documentation is very generic. It should
NOT be taken as the final word/gospel truth. There are always local
exceptions here and there which are not documented by NANPA. And even
where NANPA does know about individual miscellaneous 7D exceptions,
these are maintained internally in their database of (US) Central
Office Code assignments, so as not to assign a conflicting c.o.code
where there is such protected seven-digit local dialing across an NPA
boundary (both intra and inter-state), but they do NOT necessarily
document all of these such exceptions as footnotes in the "public"
dialing plan documents. Their public dialing plan documents are indeed
a good general GUIDE, but NOT the final word! And then you have the
independent telcos as well as CLECs, VoIP, etc. who are going to "do
what they want", despite what the state commission might want. And
then there's wireless "dial" (keying) plans, but remember that
wireless is an entirely different "animal" altogether. In 1+10D
mandatory areas at least mandatory when calling different area codes,
(California, NY State, northern Illinois, etc), one can key "straight"
10D+SEND from their cellphone. Where 1+ is prohibited for (ten-digit)
local calls in certain states, one can key 1+10D+SEND from their
cellphones. Where overlays with mandatory (1+)ten-digit local home-NPA
calls are NOT yet in place, as long as I'm not roaming, I can key
7D+SEND for my home-NPA calls, even to rate centers in the home-NPA
where a landline customer would HAVE to dial 1+ home-NPA+7D.
NANPA's (public) dialing documentation does NOT reflect cellular
dialing (keying) exceptions!
>> Quebec's 819 has mandatory ten-digit dialing but won't be overlaid
>> with 873 for another few years now;
> That's probably because they used to have permissive dialing into
> 613 in the Ottawa area, and going directly to 10D makes it less
> likely that people will misdial.
In Fall 2006, 613 in eastern Ontario, ALL of the 819 area code in
its part of Quebec, and Quebec's 450 area code in the region
surrounding immediate Montreal Metro went to mandatory ten-digit
dialing. Also in Fall 2006, along with mandatory ten-digit local
dialing, 514 Montreal was overlaid with 438, and 519 in its part of
Ontario was overlaid with 226 (CANada).
Southeastern Ontario's 613 isn't overlaid with 343 until this Spring.
Quebec's 450 isn't overlaid with 579 until later this year. And
Quebec's 819 won't be overlaid with 873 for at least 3-5 years.
The reason for mandatory ten-digit dialing throughout ALL of 613 ON
and 819 PQ, not "just" in the Ottawa ON / Hull PQ metro area (which
did have "protected" 7D local dialing, even to the point where at ONE
time, the 613-NNX codes in the Ottawa ON side metro area were NOT
assigned AT ALL elsewhere in the 819 NPA, and vice-versa. From "the
world", you could at one time dial ANYTHING in the Ottawa ON/Hull PQ
Metro area with either/ both 613 and/or 819, regardless. They
eventually limited the protection to "just within the metro area". But
starting in Fall 2006, they introduced mandatory ten-digit dialing,
not just within the metro area, nor even just for local calls crossing
the NPA/Province line, but for ANY/ALL local calls ANYWHERE within 613
and 819. The Canadian telco/regulatory/numbering bodies knew that they
were likely NOT going to split 613 or 819, but overlay them when
needed, so they went to mandatory ten-digit dialing several years in
advance in preparation for the future overlays.
A/B
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:10:47 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Overlays and Dialing Plans (was at&t vs. Verizon TV Ads)
Message-ID: <e1d2e5ad-7ada-43e9-8c04-bdcfa3bcb359@o26g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
On Feb 5, 3:00 pm, "Anthony Bellanga"
<anthonybella...@gonetoearth.com> wrote:
> The "Atlantic Coastal NJ" LATA is entirely within NPA 609 though.
> And the "Delaware Valley NJ" LATA covers not only part of NPA 609,
> but also ALL of NPA 856. The Camden NJ area and the Philadelphia PA
> are in separate LATAs, but the ILEC side of Verizon does maintain that
> grandfathered option for "corridor dialing" between the two, using
> "dialaround" codes 1010NJB from NJ to PA, and 1010BPA from PA to NJ.
The corridor dialing mentioned above is a toll call and the rates
haven't changed for a while. Not too long ago a la carte subscribers
of long distance carriers were paying a flat roughly 25c/ minute
regardless of distance. In those days one had to make quite a few
calls to justify going to a 'plan', which had fees and conditions
attached and were always changing. The above corridor rates were much
cheaper and easier to deal with.
However, these days even a la carte rates are cheap and it doesn't
take much usage to justify a plan. Further, many people use their
cell phones for their long distance calls. Accordingly, I'm not sure
how many people still use the above corridor services. They are still
listed in the front of the phone book.
Note that along the upper Delaware River between PA and NJ subscribers
have local interstate (cross LATA) calling priviledges. Years ago
only 7 digits were required but the explosion resulted in 10 digits
today, but it is still a local call, not toll.
> It is likely that the entire province of Manitoba will have an overlay
> with associated mandatory-ten in a few years, 204/(431).
I'm surprised these rural Canadian provinces are 10 digit.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:21:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: dialing plans, was at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
Message-ID: <hkhr4f$g1j$1@reader2.panix.com>
> I have no idea of how many or few places have gone to mandatory 10
> digits in North America today. I suspect in terms of population
> density it's quite high while in terms of land area it's rather low.
I'm amazed this is even a topic. While I suppose some cell carrier
somewhere offers 7D, I'd bet 99% of cell-originated calls are dialed
with 10D. And since that's a sizable percentage of all calls placed;
do the remaining 7D POTS areas even care?
What is annoying the places I've found that will NOT accept 10D for
a 7D call. You'd think they were being processed by a step office or
something equally braindead.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Date: 5 Feb 2010 23:13:01 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: dialing plans, was at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
Message-ID: <20100205231301.1778.qmail@simone.iecc.com>
>I'm amazed this is even a topic. While I suppose some cell carrier
>somewhere offers 7D
Cell One^W^WCingular^Wat&t has always supported 7D dialing around
here, along with 10D, 1 10D, and +1 10D. There's still significant
parts of the country that are not overlaid and not likely to be any
time soon. If I recall correctly, you work in one of them.
>I'd bet 99% of cell-originated calls are dialed with 10D. And since
>that's a sizable percentage of all calls placed; do the remaining 7D
>POTS areas even care?
Why, yes, we do.
>What is annoying the places I've found that will NOT accept 10D for
>a 7D call.
How can they do that? It's ambiguous. If they won't accept 1+10D for
a 7D call, I agree that's annoying. And then there's the Texas Stupid
dialing plan, where you have to memorize what prefixes are local and
what are toll, because you must dial 10D for local and 1+10D for toll.
R's,
John
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:14:25 -0800
From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: AT&T vs. SBC
Message-ID: <wUL9n.15443$3W2.10231@newsfe14.iad>
Gray, Charles wrote:
> In my view, SBC chose to assume the new name AT&T ( or at&t as you wish)
> because it was a brand recognized worldwide. Very few people, even those in
> the industry recognized "SBC". They might have recognized Southwestern Bell
> Telephone, but the AT&T brand was just too well known to ignore. I have
> worked internationally for about 12 years and most of the people I came in
> contact with recognized the AT&T brand. And that certainly carries weight at
> the International Telecommunications Union (ITU).
Your points are well taken.
But, I also think deception played a role in their decision; i.e.,
some folks will think the great AT&T has risen from the ashes.
I think of an elderly lady up the street who is still very sharp but
never understood any of this stuff.
About the time Pacific Bell was rebranded as SBC at&t became a
reseller of LEC services. Thus, she thought she was getting away from
Pacific Bell/SBC, for she had a strong dislike. When I pointed out to
her she was only buying into a different billing service, she really
got ticked off.
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:11:18 -0800
From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Message-ID: <bI0bn.49280$_96.30480@newsfe02.iad>
The other night my wife and I watched the 1993 Michael Douglas movie
about a nut case wondering around Los Angeles, "Falling Down."
At least twice the character used touch tone pay stations where we could
distinctly hear the tones being converted into dial pulse, and it was
loud. By 1993, I suspect touch-tone on the front end of an SXS office
was pretty much gone from the Los Angeles area. But, the techno-geeks
on the movie must have had not-so-fond memories of that bogus tone
dialing, so decided to make a statement in the movie to at least the
phone phreaks out there.
Most of the movie was located in Pacific Bell territory although the
concluding scene was in General Telephone territory.
I know that GTE added tone dialing to the front end of all their SXS
offices in the early 1970s, and they were 100% SXS until perhaps the
early 1980s.
The Bell part of Los Angeles was also all SXS until after WWII (it never
had panel offices). But, after WWII Pacific Telephone (Bell) augmented
their metro offices with a lot of expansion 5XBAR, to provide a common
control tandem for the vast amount of SXS. I know that AT&T directed
the BOCs to add touch-tone to all of the 5XBARs during the mid-1960s, or
so, because the 5XBAR would post the tones as fast as a 1ESS (i.e., none
of that long wait with DP ratcheting as GTE had and the movie had).
Does anyone know whether the BOCs added tone dialing to the front end of
any of their SXS offices? Or, did they limit it to 5XBARs?
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:07:57 -0800
From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Message-ID: <hkifdd$1g3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Sam Spade wrote:
> The Bell part of Los Angeles was also all SXS until after WWII (it
> never had panel offices). But, after WWII Pacific Telephone (Bell)
> augmented their metro offices with a lot of expansion 5XBAR, to
> provide a common control tandem for the vast amount of SXS. I know
> that AT&T directed the BOCs to add touch-tone to all of the 5XBARs
> during the mid-1960s, or so, because the 5XBAR would post the tones
> as fast as a 1ESS (i.e., none of that long wait with DP ratcheting
> as GTE had and the movie had).
>
> Does anyone know whether the BOCs added tone dialing to the front
> end of any of their SXS offices? Or, did they limit it to 5XBARs?
The last SXS office for GTE went electronic on December 1, 1990 at
Walnut Grove, Calif.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2010 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:00:34 -0800 (PST)
From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Re: Great Movie Telephone Sounds
Message-ID: <8101de7d-faaa-4c88-a8e5-4c7d5e4c1bc4@a1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
On Feb 5, 5:11 pm, Sam Spade <s...@coldmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know whether the BOCs added tone dialing to the front end of
> any of their SXS offices? Or, did they limit it to 5XBARs?
The Bell Labs history book, vol 1925-1975 Switching, has considerable
details about the implementation of Touch Tone in various kinds of
offices. They developed several different units for SxS offices; the
units varied by cost and quality. IIRC, the choice of unit depended
on traffic volume and expected life before convesion to a more modern
office.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:14:17 -0600
From: John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org.
Subject: Status of 737 area code
Message-ID: <6645152a1002051714g71ef5c67n3a0be4a6e92d864b@mail.gmail.com>
Once upon a time 737 was slated to be overlaid on 512 in the Austin
area. This never happened. If memory serves me correctly it was
combination of the dot-com bust, less demand for numbers, and changes
to how groups of numbers were parceled out that prevented this from
happening.
I sometimes read a humor site detailing funny, albeit rather juvenile,
text messages that are identified only by area code. I've seen a
couple referencing 737 and one of them mentioned "Texas". We do not
have 10-digital dialing here, I checked. And as far as I can tell no
737 numbers have been issued. I understand this site is hardly an
authoritative source, but has 737 become active? I even did a Google
News search, but only got a bunch of irrelevant articles plus a ton
about airliners.
John
- -
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson
***** Moderator's Note *****
"Hardly an authoritative source"?
It ain't the General Accounting Office, kid, but we do our best ...
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