From editor@telecom-digest.org Tue Sep 21 14:19:52 2004 Received: (from ptownson@localhost) by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) id i8LIJqO14195; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:19:52 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <200409211819.i8LIJqO14195@massis.lcs.mit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: massis.lcs.mit.edu: ptownson set sender to editor@telecom-digest.org using -f To: ptownson Approved: patsnewlist Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #438 TELECOM Digest Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:20:00 EDT Volume 23 : Issue 438 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator (Thor Lancelot Simon) Re: Switch Local Telco Without Disconnecting Comcast (Michael Sullivan) Any Old Mechanical Systems Still in Use in the US? (vu huong) Re: The Wal-Mart Supremacy (Steve Sobol) Re: Telephone to PC Messaging (Ray Normandeau) Vonage and SIP (Steve Sobol) Vonage (David Vogel) VOIP How is it Done? (Shabam) Canada Sizes Up VOIP Regulation (Jack Decker) All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) Subject: Re: DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator Date: 21 Sep 2004 13:55:01 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. In article , wrote: > Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: >> Except that there is no such thing as an "industry standard Nortel >> IPsec VPN solution", because Nortel has been among the very worst >> offenders in its "embrace and extend" approach to the actual IPsec > Isn't that exactly what it says, with marketing fluff added? It works No, it very much is *not*. It says "IPsec" and it's not IPsec, much less "standard IPsec" (and no, putting the word "industry" in front does not in any meaningful way to dilute the claims that it is "IPsec" and "standard IPsec"). Unfortunately, the FTC et al are not technically savvy enough to crack down on this sort of false advertising -- and the VPN vendors are among the worst in pushing the envelope as far as they can. If it were "standard IPsec", it'd talk to _any_ vendor's head-end gear. But the entire _point_ of the Cisco and Nortel "IPsec" VPNs is to get you to turn off the actual standard IPsec installation that's built in to your operating system and install in its place one that will only talk to their own head-end gear, so that if you ever try to migrate to some other brand of head-end gear the installed base of nonstandard software will make it prohibitively expensive to do so. This is one area in which the Bell standards folks are, and always have been, miles ahead of the IETF. If you claim to implement MTP level 3, nobody in the voice telecom business will buy your product unless you can show them test results certifying that it is in fact standard MTP level 3 and will interoperate with other MTP3 implementations that conform to the standard. And _still_ there are all sorts of minor glitches when people plug the stuff together in the real world. What you've got on the part of the VPN vendors is *deliberate* incompatibility used *deliberately* as a means of preventing customers from exercising free choice in the marketplace: a churn-reducer, if you will; false advertising used for a flagrantly anticompetitive purpose. Nice, huh? Thor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls.com But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud ------------------------------ From: Michael D. Sullivan Subject: Re: Cannot Switch Local Telco Without Disconnecting Comcast Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 01:24:50 GMT > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But, Mr. Sullivan, if what you say is > true, then couldn't he let the Comcast 'high speed' be disconnected, > transfer his service to Cavalier as desired, *then* get the Comcast > 'high speed' service reconnected via Cavalier? Maybe not; I do know > that TerraWorld resells SBC DSL service, under the TerraWorld name, > but if an SBC customer jumps ship and goes with Prairie Steam, SBC > flatly refuses to allow TerraWorld to contine the arrangement with > that customer. PAT] Yes he could, if Cavalier offers DSL and has a deal with Comcast. My guess is that Cavalier is either reselling Verizon service or using Verizon UNE-P; it's possible, but less likely, that they have their own switch. In either any of these scenarios Cavalier would be capable of offering DSL, but they may or may not be capable of offering it jointly with Comcast. For example, if they are reselling Verizon service, they can probably resell the phone service with or without Verizon DSL internet access, under their contract with Verizon, but the fact that Verizon also sells the high-frequency part of its own loops to other DSL ISPs does not mean that Verizon can sell the high-frequency part of loops that are resold through Cavalier; nor does it mean that a DSL ISP would be willing to deal with Cavalier. Michael D. Sullivan Bethesda, MD, USA Delete nospam from my address and it won't work. ------------------------------ From: psychoshredder@yahoo.com (vu huong) Subject: Any Old Mechanical Systems Still in Use in the US? Date: 20 Sep 2004 19:57:09 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Hello, Does anyone know of any old telephone systems still in use in the US (i.e. SxS, etc.) If so, is it possible to post any phone numbers so I could "hear" them in action? Thanks, Vu ------------------------------ From: Steve Sobol Subject: Re: The Wal-Mart Supremacy Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:18:14 -0700 Organization: Glorb Internet Services, http://www.glorb.com Monty Solomon wrote: > In most cases you'd call it a recipe for disaster. In the case of > Wal-Mart, a company with the power to force others to follow its > technology agenda, you'd simply call it "tough love." I have such a dilemma about Wal-Mart. On the one hand, they pull crap like this. All the time. On the other hand, I want to support them because they opened up a distribution center five minutes from my house, creating at least 1200 jobs here in Apple Valley. *groan* JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Same thing here, Steve. I find some of Walmart's tactics just generally offensive; the way they put down women in their work force (lower pay, inability to advance to higher paying jobs); the fact that many of their employees seem to almost be robots with their smiles, their 'all-American' attitudes, etc; there are many facets about the corporation that I just feel uneasy about, including what I believe is their predatory pricing techniques, and, the fact that although they *claim* to work with the community they are in, that is only true if *they* want to work along. They do not belong to the various chambers of commerce in the small towns for example. And yet, Steve, just as you pointed out, they brought 1200 new jobs to Apple Valley. Ditto here, proportionatly. We here are in a very economically depressed area. Southeast Kansas *used to be* the oil capitol of the world, along with our nearest big city, Tulsa, eighty miles south. Mr. Harry Sinclair, founder of Sinclair Oil Company (later known as Atlantic Richfield, then as Arco) lived here, in a house a few blocks down the street from my own. Almost everything of enduring significance we have in our little town dates back to the 1920-30's, when oil was king. Everything of any real value we have here came from the same period and was largely provided for us by the oil barons, Sinclair and others. Our town's population went from a peak high point of twenty thousand (in the 1920-30's) down to its present eight thousand people, none of whom are of the stature and prominence of Bill Kurtis (news, documentaries, A&E Network) who in those days owned and managed our radio station KIND (he still owns it); Vivian Vance (I Love Lucy), Harry Sinclair, or William Inge (playright and author and one of the founders of our college). Slowly things are dying here with occassional burst of energy such as Walmart building a super center (the complex is really huge, one of their largest stores in this area I am told), and when they said they would be hiring 400 people to work in this new store, people went wild. I just don't know what to think. I know we needed the jobs, badly. Maybe those of us who prefer the older ways of doing things are the villians. Like you, Steve, I have very mixed emotions. I know about five or six of the people in town who work at Walmart; they love their jobs; I see no reason to speak negatively to them about their work although personally I *hate* Walmart. PAT] ------------------------------ From: rayta@msn.com (Ray Normandeau) Subject: Re: Telephone to PC Messaging Date: 21 Sep 2004 07:25:28 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com ckm1955@gmail.com (Huntley Meadows) wrote in message news:: > I was wondering specifically as to whether there is a way for my > daughter to send a message using some service whereby the message > would show up on my PC in real-time (a la IM), so as to allow me to > get off the phone to receive her call. If she is on line, she can send you an Email Wife and I use Virgin phones from which you can send a text msg to Email for ten cents. Virgin uses SPCS network. ------------------------------ From: Steve Sobol Subject: Vonage and SIP Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:18:51 -0700 Organization: Glorb Internet Services, http://www.glorb.com Does Vonage work with IAX or SIP devices? Specifically, does the service work with the Asterisk PBX system? JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. ------------------------------ From: David Vogel Subject: Vonage Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:46:20 -0400 Massis, I saw your old post on Vonage. Do you still have info on their free trial? David Vogel P.S. My best friend from childhood is named Massis. JVA-Legov Realty 36 East 12th Street New York, NY 10003 tel: 212-677-2632 fax: 212-677-4346 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yes, David, I still have the Vonage 'free trial coupons'. The way it works is you *must* use the e-coupon I will send you, and you *must* get your Vonage telephone adapter though my offer. In other words you cannot go to Best Buy, get a Vonage TA from them which includes a free month, and then use my coupon for a second free month, unless you are in the market for *two* TA's; one from me and one from Best Buy. You use my e-coupon to purchase the TA (on your credit card but delivered by Vonage) and to get your number assignment. You pay for a month's service, then the e-coupon kicks in whatever kind of service you chose to buy, you get the second month of same for free. The e-coupon will be in email to you later today. Be sure to white list my name or otherwise watch your spam bucket. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Shabam Subject: VOIP: How is it Done? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:08:46 -0700 In order for VOIP to work, there must be a PBX switch at most locations around the country, in order to convert the data packets back into analog and be routed through the local phone lines. That way VOIP customers can call analog phone customers. Ok, so there are many providers out there, and I know they don't all own such switches around the country. They must be either renting/leasing those switches, or are just reselling. How does this work and which companies handle this? Second question. For internal routing, such as when VOIP user A calls VOIP user B, the signal is obviously not being converted back into analog and passed through the local phone company. My question is, how is the signal able to find its way to user B? By IP address? What if user B's IP is dynamic or he moves his IP phone to another network connection? I'm guessing that whenever the phone is plugged in, it's sending a signal back to the company telling it its IP address. ------------------------------ From: Jack Decker Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:27:43 -0400 Subject: Canada Sizes Up VOIP Regulation Reply-To: VoIPnews@yahoogroups.com http://wwjack-yahoogroups@workbench.net> w.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1648291,00.asp By Ellen Muraskin The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission on Tuesday begins a three-day hearing on the regulation of VOIP (voice over IP) services, finding itself at a crossroads familiar to the parallel organizations of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission and the European Commission. A total of 33 parties, including major, incumbent Canadian telcos Bell Canada Enterprises Inc. and Telus Corp., will present their positions, hoping to sway the CRTC from a preliminary opinion. CRTC chairman Charles Dalfen said in an April public notice that VOIP should be treated like any other local phone service, meaning that those incumbents in a position to bundle VOIP with broadband would have to file tariffs and wait for CRTC approval. New entrants, however, would be free of such regulation. Applying current regulation to VOIP services would act as a brake on the incumbent telcos, VOIP challengers say. If left unregulated, incumbents could kill off the VOIP threat by aggressively bundling an artificially low-priced phone service with broadband Internet access and wireless service. Full story at: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1648291,00.asp How to Distribute VoIP Throughout a Home: http://michigantelephone.mi.org/distribute.html If you live in Michigan, subscribe to the MI-Telecom group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MI-Telecom/ ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. 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