From editor@telecom-digest.org Mon Sep 20 00:58:10 2004 Received: (from ptownson@localhost) by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) id i8K4wA925238; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:58:10 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <200409200458.i8K4wA925238@massis.lcs.mit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: massis.lcs.mit.edu: ptownson set sender to editor@telecom-digest.org using -f To: ptownson Approved: patsnewlist Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #435 TELECOM Digest Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:58:00 EDT Volume 23 : Issue 435 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: Telephone to PC Messaging (Carl Navarro) Re: Telephone to PC Messaging (Scott Summers) Re: Telephone to PC Messaging (Dave Garland) Re: Telephone to PC Messaging (Kenneth P. Stox) Re: DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator (Thor Lancelot Simon) Re: Intuit Pits Its Customers Against Its Partners (Thomas A. Horsley) Re: Attack of the Radio Clones (Michael A. Covington) Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 (Michael A. Covington) Re: Best Phone to Use For Radio Telephone Interviews? (Joseph) Re: Cordless Phone (Dave Garland) What is # Called? How Did # Get its Name? (TELECOM Archives Reprint) All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carl Navarro Subject: Re: Telephone to PC Messaging Reply-To: cnavarro@wcnet.org Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:44:35 GMT Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com On 18 Sep 2004 22:02:59 -0700, ckm1955@gmail.com (Huntley Meadows) wrote: > I often find I am surfing the net on a dial-up modem when my daughter > is trying to reach me. She finds me hogging the only telephone at > home, and is unable to reach me. Short of my getting a second phone > or broadband, is there a cheaper solution? > I was wondering specifically as to whether there is a way for my > daughter to send a message using some service whereby the message > would show up on my PC in real-time (a la IM), so as to allow me to > get off the phone to receive her call. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Do you have a cell phone? > Call-forward or (have telco) hunt to your cell phone. Does your > telco also offer voicemail? Have your inbound calls (when line is > busy) go to voice mail. Also I should mention that America OnLine > has a service of their own referred to as 'call waiting' where your > phone is call-forwarded to some 800 number of theirs; when AOL sees > an incoming call for your number, if you are on line (with them, > naturally) they will send a flash message to your screen saying > "(caller ID of caller) is trying to get through to you" or some > words like that. PAT] I use MaxEmail. It's a Chicago area number that accepts voice and faxes. You can have her call the number or use CF to get your number to it. Cost is about $15/year or $50 if you want to use CID. Carl Navarro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:03:09 -0700 From: Scott Summers Reply-To: Scott Summers Subject: Telephone to PC Messaging http://www.callwave.com/landing/CORP_Main.asp CallWave's easy-to-install software helps consumers and businesses get more out of their wireless phone, home phone, and Internet-connected PC by 'bridging' calls between these devices My elderly parents used it for a while -- because they didn't like the idea of their modem preventing people from calling them. Happy Surfing! Scott Summers ------------------------------ From: Dave Garland Subject: Re: Telephone to PC Messaging Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:31:25 -0500 Organization: Wizard Information It was a dark and stormy night when ckm1955@gmail.com (Huntley Meadows) wrote: > I was wondering specifically as to whether there is a way for my > daughter to send a message using some service whereby the message > would show up on my PC in real-time (a la IM), so as to allow me to > get off the phone to receive her call. Yes. If you use a service like Callwave, AOLCallerAlert, Internet Call Manager, etc. Google for "internet answering machine" (include the quotes) for vendors and urls. The one I am most familiar with is Callwave, which requires you to have "forward on busy" on your phone line. You run a small program on your computer, and when you are online (dialup) callers get a message that says something like "That number is busy at the moment, but has been notified of your call." A popup on the computer meanwhile displays Caller ID info from your call. The version I am familiar (the cheapest) with requires you (the computer owner) to go offline and call them back, but for a bit extra you can hear them leave a message, take their call, etc. Cost range is $18/year for the cheapest service (as described), $8/month for the most features. I think for additional money it can also receive faxes. The other brands of service seem to provide similar capabilities. ------------------------------ From: Kenneth P. Stox Organization: Imaginary Landscape, LLC. Subject: Re: Telephone to PC Messaging Huntley Meadows wrote: > I often find I am surfing the net on a dial-up modem when my daughter > is trying to reach me. She finds me hogging the only telephone at > home, and is unable to reach me. Short of my getting a second phone > or broadband, is there a cheaper solution? > I was wondering specifically as to whether there is a way for my > daughter to send a message using some service whereby the message > would show up on my PC in real-time (a la IM), so as to allow me to > get off the phone to receive her call. In theory, V.92 modems would allow you to get caller-id information, while still online. Does your provider support V.92? ------------------------------ From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) Subject: Re: DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator Date: 19 Sep 2004 19:27:38 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com In article , Monty Solomon wrote: > offices or homes, anywhere, to their private intranets. DIRECWAY VPN > Accelerator has been designed to interoperate seamlessly with industry > standard Nortel IPsec VPN solutions, and in later releases, with Check > Point and Cisco systems. Except that there is no such thing as an "industry standard Nortel IPsec VPN solution", because Nortel has been among the very worst offenders in its "embrace and extend" approach to the actual IPsec standard. Nortel VPN hardware and software uses protocols that are _somewhat_ like the standard IPsec protocols -- except when they aren't like them at all, curiously enough in just enough ways to make it prohibitively expensive to switch away from Nortel VPN headend gear were you to get a better price from some other vendor. Thor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls.com But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Intuit Pits Its Customers Against Its Partners From: tom.horsley@att.net (Thomas A. Horsley) Organization: AT&T Worldnet Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:24:18 GMT > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But all those software providers -- in > particular Microsoft -- are getting eaten alive by professional > cheats, aren't they? What else should they do if they are going to > remain in business? PAT] Yea, and the baseball owners have lost a total of $16,000,000,000,000 in the last 2 decades, and no movie ever made by any Hollywood studio ever made a profit :-). >>==>> The *Best* political site >>==+ email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL | Free Software and Politics <<==+ ------------------------------ From: Michael A. Covington Subject: Re: Attack of the Radio Clones Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:04:17 -0400 Organization: Speed Factory (http://www.speedfactory.net) > Earlier this month, Microsoft began charging users to listen to online > clones of 978 U.S. and Canadian radio stations with '"fewer ads, no DJ > chatter and less repetition." And no, Bill Gates didn't ask the > stations for permission to copy their playlists. Compilations, as compilations, are copyrightable even if the works within them are not (and in this case they are). It should be straightforward for a station to copyright its playlist and sue infringers. However, back in the heyday of Top 40 radio, didn't all stations *try* to have the same playlist? ------------------------------ From: Michael A. Covington Subject: Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:06:21 -0400 Organization: Speed Factory (http://www.speedfactory.net) If there's a solution, it's probably at www.lvr.com (Jan Axelson's site devoted to serial, parallel, and USB ports). ------------------------------ From: Joseph Subject: Re: Best Phone to Use For Radio Telephone Interviews? Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com On 18 Sep 2004 16:05:45 -0700, jkarevoll@yahoo.com (JayKay) wrote: > What's an old 500-set? http://www.bellsystemmemorial.com/telephones-500.html ------------------------------ From: Dave Garland Subject: Re: Cordless Phone Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:56:09 -0500 Organization: Wizard Information It was a dark and stormy night when alex_s_42@yahoo.com (Alex T.) wrote: > One thing that adds to confusion is the fact that sometimes they > write on the box "digital", instead of DSS, whatever that means. "Digital" does NOT mean "DSS". Spread spectrum/frequency hopping is an additional feature, and you can be sure they'll tell you about it if present. I've had good luck with the Panasonics. I have an older KX-TG200 Gigarange 2.4GHz, which I think uses split 900MHz/2.4GHz, and had better range (about half a city block) and lasted far longer (5 years? Maybe longer, I bought it when they first came out) than any other cordless I have owned. At this point the (second) battery pack needs to be replaced, and the mic doesn't work very well (perhaps due to being dropped one too many times to the asphalt) although still it works ok with headset. The keypad still works perfectly. (In researching its replacement, it appears that the "DSS" that it has does not frequency hop, which resulted in charges of false advertising.) So I replaced it a month or so ago with a KX-TG2312, a 2.4GMHz phone that they specifically say DOES frequency hop DSS. It's got more features (CID, speakerphone), but the base unit has only one antenna instead of two, and the range is slightly (maybe 100') less. They've got models that I suspect are the same basic phone with answering machine (I didn't want the answering machine), sold at the usual stores (Best Buy, Target, etc.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:30:47 EDT From: TELECOM Digest Editor Subject: What is the Name of #? How did # Get its Name? Julian Macassey wrote to the Digest fifteen years ago and asked about the ' # ' key on telephones. There were several messages on it at the time, then about nine years ago, in 1995 we had a more or less definitive answer. For those of you who have wondered about this key which is located directly below the 9 on telephone keypads, here are the answers we printed at the time, as per our archives. Subject: Octothorpe source Date: 19 Nov 88 15:25:08 PST (Sat) From: ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term OCTOTHORPE. An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen references to it in some Bell docs, I have even seen a news clipping years ago that mentioned it. My problem is that every now and again, some smart Alec asks me where it comes from. I have even been accused of making it up. No dictionary I have seen has ever given me a definition. Yes I have looked it up in the 24 Volume Oxford English Dictionary. I have checked the encyc Brit and alleged Telecommunications Dictionaries. I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the word has some roots. There is a good term paper here for someone. Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 To: comp-dcom-telecom@ncar.ucar.edu From: aem@ibiza.Miami.Edu (a.e.mossberg) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 21 Nov 88 14:52:27 GMT In , wrote: > An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to > as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number > symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen > references to it in some Bell docs, I have even seen a news > clipping years ago that mentioned it. Indeed, that's the same place I learned the term, but usually have to revert to 'number sign' or 'pound sign'. > My problem is that every now and again, some smart Alec asks > me where it comes from. I have even been accused of making it > up. No dictionary I have seen has ever given me a definition. Yep, same here. I've never been able to find it in a dictionary, nor have I been able to find the original reference from where I learned it. I was beginning to think I made it up in some frenzied nightmare. Perhaps Bell invented it, and then changed their collective mind. a.e.mossberg - aem@mthvax.miami.edu - aem@mthvax.span (3.91) Man is here for the sake of other men. - Albert Einstein Date: Mon, 21 Nov 88 09:19:28 PST From: HECTOR MYERSTON Subject: Octothorpe source To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu All my Bell System references call # The Number Sign (or Pound). The only times I see it called an Octothrope is in Northern Telecom Inc publications talking about Digipulse Dialing, "their name" for DTMF. The Japanese routinely call it a "Sharp". Obscure to me, logical to the musically inclined. +HECTOR+ To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: westmark!dave@rutgers.edu (Dave Levenson) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 24 Nov 88 00:52:41 GMT In article ,(julian macassey) writes: > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. > I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the > word has some roots. # # # # ####### # # ####### # # # # Can't you see the eight beams here? Dave Levenson Westmark, Inc. The Man in the Mooney Warren, NJ USA {rutgers | att}!westmark!dave TELECOM Digest Tue, 29 Nov 88 0:23:56 EST Volume 8 : Issue 187 Today's Topics: Octothorpe re: Octothorpe source Re: Octothorpe source From: 8b@cup.portal.com To: telecom-request@xx.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Octothorpe Date: Sat, 26-Nov-88 09:52:20 PST But ... a # doesn't have eight beams ... only 4 ... two really if you define beam as being horizontal ... just call it a pound sign ... which, I suppose, refers to some typewriter which have the British pound sign over the 3 ... I just call it the number sign ... I've also heard it referred to as a ticktacktoe ... -8b@cup.portal.com From: minow%thundr.DEC@decwrl.dec.com Date: 28 Nov 88 14:17 To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu, MINOW%thundr.DEC@decwrl.dec.com Subject: re: Octothorpe source According to legend, "octothorpe" is a name that the Bell people made up for the # on the telephone keypad. I suspect that they couldn't agree as to whether it was a "pound sign", "sharp", or "number sign" and eventually compromised (making everyone equally miserable). Martin Minow minow%thundr.dec@decwrl.dec.com [Moderator's question: I am wondering if our correspondent is related to Newton Minow, well known FCC executive. Just curious. P. Townson] To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: Henry Troup Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 22 Nov 88 15:57:48 GMT In article ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. > Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 I believe AT&T named the little beastie. Anyone at AT&T wanted to claim responsibility? Henry Troup utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!hwt%bnr-public | BNR is not Bell-Northern Reseach hwt@bnr (BITNET/NETNORTH) | responsible for Ottawa, Canada (613) 765-2337 (Voice) | my opinions Date: Thu, 1 Dec 88 21:05:28 EST From: The Moderator Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V8 #190 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Thu, 1 Dec 88 21:05:28 EST Volume 8 : Issue 190 Today's Topics: All You Ever Wanted To Know About Octothorpes [Moderator's Note: This is a just-for-fun special issue of the Digest with a random sampling of the mail received pertaining to your favorite touch-pad key and mine, the lowly octothorpe, or #. As is our custom, we have even provided a rebuttal message from someone who says the # is not known as an octothorpe at all .... Now can we get this out of our systems once and for all please? Let's call it quits on the subject of #, by whatever name. P. Townson] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larryl@nvuxr.UUCP (L Lang) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 22 Nov 88 15:36:53 GMT Organization: Bell Communications Research Lines: 24 In article , ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. > An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to > as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number > symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen > I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the > word has some roots. > Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 When I count "thorpes" (the beams or lines), I only see four, two vertical and two horizontal. Perhaps it should be called the QUADROTHORPE. And does that make the * a TRITHORPE? Cheers, Larry Lang To: comp-dcom-telecom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU From: desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 30 Nov 88 23:20:40 GMT Just to provide another point of view: from CCITT recommendation E.161 (Arrangement of Figures, Letters and Symbols of Telephones and other Devices that can be used for Gaining Access to a Telephone Network) as revised for the Blue Book: 3.2.2 Symbols ... [drawings, with angle between horiz. and vert. strokes, length of strokes, and length of protruding nubbies labelled alpha, b, and a respectively] in Europe alpha = 90 degrees with a/b = 0.08 (looks funny to a N.American) in North America alpha = 80 deg. with a/b = 0.18 ... The symbol will be known as the square or the most commonly used equivalent term in other languages.* *... alternate term (e.g. "number sign") may be necessary... I suppose it's useful to have a translatable term. That approach worked for "star", but it seems to have failed here. Does anyone refer to '#' as a "square"? Anywhere? Enquiring minds want to know... Peter Desnoyers To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edurom: erik@Morgan.COM (Erik T. Mueller) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 1 Dec 88 19:28:06 GMT The term "octothorpe" appears in issues of the journal -Telesis- from the mid to late 1970's published by Bell Northern Research. (Sorry, I don't have the actual issue numbers handy right now...) I don't know its origin, but vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was a Canadian telephony term. As far as I know, the term is/was never used by AT&T. -Erik To: comp-dcom-telecom@decwrl.dec.com From: avsd!childers (Richard Childers) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 25 Nov 88 21:25:03 GMT In article ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. ... ( An octothorpe is an # ... ) Well, this isn't authoritative, it's intuitive, but I _think_ it refers to the symbol as used on a complex organ's key, for a particular mode. > Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 -- richard -- * Any excuse will serve a tyrant. -- Aesop * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D * To: comp-dcom-telecom From: seeger@beach.cis.ufl.edu (F. L. Charles Seeger III) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 1 Dec 88 15:42:09 GMT In article MYERSTON@KL.SRI.COM (HECTOR MYERSTON) writes: | All my Bell System references call # The Number Sign (or Pound). |The only times I see it called an Octothrope is in Northern Telecom Inc |publications talking about Digipulse Dialing, "their name" for DTMF. | The Japanese routinely call it a "Sharp". Obscure to me, logical |to the musically inclined. I usually refer to as "sharp", but may change to octothorpe -- I sometimes like to tilt at windmills. What are the names of the other ASCII special symbols? For instance, "&" is an ampersand and "*" an asterisk. Are there any fancy (preferrably single word) names for the others? I.e names not of the form "* [sign|mark|symbol]". Does anyone have a reference on these things, probably a typography reference? The terms that I use, about which I'm fairly confident: ~ tilde () [left|right|open|close] parenthesis [] [left|right|open|close] bracket {} [left|right|open|close] brace <> [left|right|open|close] carat ^ circumflex _ underscore . period , comma ; semi-colon : colon What about the following: ? ! @ $ % / \ | + = - ` ' " If I get responses by Email, I'll summarize in a couple of weeks. Also, feel free to suggest a more appropriate newsgroup. Charles Seeger 216 Larsen Hall Electrical Engineering University of Florida seeger@iec.ufl.edu Gainesville, FL 32611 [Moderator's inane comment: PUH-LEASE! write direct to Charlie on this; not to me. I do not give an iota what those things are called! And now, here is that rebuttal message...] To: comp-dcom-telecom@rutgers.edu From: ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) Subject: Re: Octothorpe Date: 1 Dec 88 22:15:50 GMT Nope, # is called pound because it is used as a symbol for pounds (weight). I really expect the brits would put the Pound Sterling where the $ is on a typewriter keyboards. -Ron [And there you have it. All the questions you were embarrassed to ask your Mother Company all nicely summarized for you by the Octothorpe Digest people in simple, easy to read format you would not be reluctant to share with your own children when they are old enough to ask the name of that 'funny looking key below the nine.' In issue 191, distributed early Friday morning, news of the increase in network access fees which took effect 12-1-88, and the correspondending decrease in rates by AT&T, Sprint, and MCI.] End of TELECOM Digest ********************* [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: (From 2004). The above conversations took place here in the Digest in December, 1988. But then, seven years later, in November, 1995 it started again. This seems to be the most definitive answer of all, and probably the real story. PAT] From: carlsen@hotair.att.com (Ralph Carlsen) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:21:55 -0500 Subject: Octothorpe (The Answer) Pat, The following explains where "octothorpe" really came from. I am sending this to you because, as you will see, there are very few people who could know this story. The reason I am writing at this time is because I volunteered for the AT&T Lay Off package after 34 years of service at Bell Labs so I may not be around much longer. During the past year I have enjoyed reading your news group, and I have used your archives a couple of times (once to get "octothorpe"). Your comments and notes on the postings suggest you and I would agree on lots of things related to our telecom industry. Ralph Carlsen THE REAL SOURCE OF THE WORD "OCTOTHORPE" First, where did the symbols * and # come from? In about 1961 when DTMF dials were still in development, two Bell Labs guys in data communications engineering (Link Rice and Jack Soderberg) toured the USA talking to people who were thinking about telephone access to computers. They asked about possible applications, and what symbols should be used on two keys that would be used exclusively for data applications. The primary result was that the symbols should be something available on all standard typewriter keyboards. The * and # were selected as a result of this study, and people did not expect to use those keys for voice services. The Bell System in those days did not look internationally to see if this was a good choice for foreign countries. Then in the early 1960s Bell Labs developed the 101 ESS which was the first stored program controlled switching system (it was a PBX). One of the first installations was at the Mayo Clinic. This PBX had lots of modern features (Call Forwarding, Speed Calling, Directed Call Pickup, etc.), some of which were activated by using the # sign. A Bell Labs supervisor DON MACPHERSON went to the Mayo Clinic just before cut over to train the doctors and staff on how to use the new features on this state of the art switching system. During one of his lectures he felt the need to come up with a word to describe the # symbol. Don also liked to add humor to his work. His thought process which took place while at the Mayo Clinic doing lectures was as follows: - There are eight points on the symbol so "OCTO" should be part of the name. - We need a few more letters or another syllable to make a noun, so what should that be? (Don MacPherson at this point in his life was active in a group that was trying to get JIM THORPE's Olympic medals returned from Sweden) The phrase THORPE would be unique, and people would not suspect he was making the word up if he called it an "OCTOTHORPE". So Don Macpherson began using the term Octothorpe to describe the # symbol in his lectures. When he returned to Bell Labs in Holmdel NJ, he told us what he had done, and began using the term Octothorpe in memos and letters. The term was picked up by other Bell Labs people and used mostly for the fun of it. Some of the documents which used the term Octothorpe found their way to Bell Operating Companies and other public places. Over the years, Don and I have enjoyed seeing the term Octothorpe appear in documents from many different sources. Don MacPherson retired about eight years ago, and I will be retiring in about six weeks. Ralph Carlsen These are, of course, my remembrances and are not any official statement of AT&T or the subsequent 3 companies. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note in 1995: Thank you very much for sharing. This is indeed an interesting report. Do you think you could get Don MacPherson to join us here among the Digest readership? PAT] [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: (in 2004) It occurs to me that so much of what we dealt with in the past was always 80 columns wide (as a computer monitor is today) and 12 rows deep (as IBM punchcards were designed), but twice that, or 24 rows for computer terminals today. So if we inserted an IBM punchcard in a computer to dial a phone number, (and in fact, early 'speed dial' phones used cards you stuck in a slot in top of them did they not?), then our modern day telephone symbol '*' would be the equivilent of the 'high punch' on the old IBM punchcards would it not, or the 'eleventh row' and the modern day telephone symbol '#' would be the 'X' punch or 'twelveth row' on the old IBM punchcards. I thought maybe there was some hexadecimal numbering thoughts involved in this thing about 12 rows, but in that case, how do you get 80 columns wide? Maybe 80 decimal is some number we would recognize in hexadecimal, but now I am confused and best quit for the night. Can anyone write to us and explain the signficance and history of 80 columns wide by 12 (or 24) rows deep? PAT] ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. 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