From editor@telecom-digest.org Sun Sep 19 19:17:47 2004 Received: (from ptownson@localhost) by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) id i8JNHlZ22313; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:17:47 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <200409192317.i8JNHlZ22313@massis.lcs.mit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: massis.lcs.mit.edu: ptownson set sender to editor@telecom-digest.org using -f To: ptownson Approved: patsnewlist Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #434 TELECOM Digest Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:18:00 EDT Volume 23 : Issue 434 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator (Monty Solomon) Attack of the Radio Clones (Monty Solomon) Cannot Switch Local Telco Without Disconnecting Comcast Broadband (Alex) Are USOC and SORD Telecom Standard? (Matt) Catch 22: Security Clearances (Fedmarket.com) Telephone Information - Good and Bad Examples (Lisa Hancock) AAA Battery Pack For StarTac telephone? (Doug Faunt N6TQS) Telephone to PC Messaging (Huntley Meadows) Cordless Phone (Alex T.) Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 (John Dearing) Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 (Gary Breuckman) Re: Intuit Pits Its Customers Against Its Partners (AES/newspost) Re: Best Phone to Use For Radio Telephone Interviews? (JayKay) Re: Conference Call With Four Parties? Programming (Al Gillis) Re: Google Ad Sense Installed (Dave Garland) Re: Packet 8 Share and Score (Isaiah Beard) All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:45:23 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator Hughes Network Systems Introduces Satellite-based Virtual Private Network Solution DIRECWAY(R) VPN Accelerator Answers Growing Demand for Teleworking in Both Urban and Rural Locations GERMANTOWN, Md., Sept. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Hughes Network Systems, Inc. (HNS), the world's leading provider of satellite broadband solutions, which it markets under the DIRECWAY(R) brand, today introduced a satellite-based virtual private network (VPN) acceleration technology. Based on the IPsec standard, DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator enables enterprises and government agencies to implement uniformly efficient and secure, wide area broadband networks, reaching teleworker employees at any location, urban or rural. There are approximately 24 million teleworkers in both the private and public sectors throughout the United States today. In order to satisfy the remote networking demands unleashed by this fast growing trend, organizations are increasingly moving from conventional leased lines or frame relay technology to broadband satellite-based solutions. DIRECWAY's continent-wide service now offers an advanced VPN acceleration technology to connect teleworkers located at branch offices or homes, anywhere, to their private intranets. DIRECWAY VPN Accelerator has been designed to interoperate seamlessly with industry standard Nortel IPsec VPN solutions, and in later releases, with Check Point and Cisco systems. It enables the implementation of uniformly secure and responsive VPNs, eliminating the latency constraints of prior satellite-based VPNs. http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=200409141203_PRN__DCTU013 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:34:50 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Attack of the Radio Clones by Randy Dotinga Generic mouthwashes claim to be just as good as Listerine, and store-brand paper towels invite consumers to compare them to Bounty. This kind of marketing doesn't raise many eyebrows. But what if an online radio station says it's just "like" New York City's Z100 or L.A.'s KROQ, and manages to sound pretty much the same? Good question. Soon, the world's largest software company, a staunch defender of its own copyrights, may have to answer it in court. Earlier this month, Microsoft began charging users to listen to online clones of 978 U.S. and Canadian radio stations with '"fewer ads, no DJ chatter and less repetition." And no, Bill Gates didn't ask the stations for permission to copy their playlists. Irony, anyone? "Microsoft is going to be on the side of 'You don't own information.' Isn't that interesting," says Doris Estelle Long , professor of internet law at the John Marshall Law School in Chicago. "They're usually sticking up signs saying, 'Mine, mine, mine.' This is a situation where they'll be on the other side of the fence." The broadcasting industry, surprised by the debut of Microsoft's Radio Plus service, hasn't reached full freak-out mode yet. But no one is thrilled, either. "It's more of an annoyance at this point, because webcasting doesn't have anything like an audience size that's going to threaten radio right now," said Brida Connolly, technology editor at trade journal Radio & Records . "But radio people are not happy about it." Not least of their gripes is the fact that Microsoft is dipping into a database of radio station playlists without kicking back any of the $30 Radio Plus yearly access fee to broadcasters. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,64984,00.html ------------------------------ From: tetromino@gmail.com (Alex Rostovtsev) Subject: Cannot Switch Local Telco Without Disconnecting Comcast Broadband Date: 18 Sep 2004 12:03:29 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I live in Maryland, US. Currently I use Verizon local phone line and Comcast high-speed internet (cable modem). I decided to switch to Cavalier Telephone for local phone service to save something like $13 per month (Verizon's prices are quite high). Cavalier techs tell me that they can't switch me because Verizon won't release my number until I disconnect from Comcast HSI. Is Cavalier lying? Can a cable / cable internet subscription affect whether I can switch local telephone providers? Is there some sort of a deal between Comcast and Verizon for preserving their monolopolies? I am a newbie with regards to telephone service, so I have no idea what to believe. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Telephone companies can and do play games all the time regards DSL service ("must take our phone service to keep your broadband", etc.) Only here and there, rarely, has that requirement been eliminated when telco found that in their best interest instead. That *never* applies when you are (or become) served by cable broadband instead of DSL. You really should double check to make certain their is no miscommunication here between Cavalier and Verizon. Example of miscommunication: You tell Cavalier "I want to subscribe to your service and oh, by the way I also have 'broadband internet' (or 'high speed internet'). In other words, phraseology like that; casual conversation with rep. In other words, you did not specifically say 'Comcast Cable', you said (or were misunderstood to say) 'broadband' or 'high speed'. Cavalier rep notes on the order to start service somewhere the phrase 'DSL' or 'highspeed internet' or similar. Does Cavalier also sell or broker DSL type service from telco, as Duane does at TerraWorld/Prairie Stream? I suspect that *someone* got their order instructions and telephone terminology confused here. The Cavalier tech (who may or may not have known what he was talking about) was talking to the Verizon tech (who likewise may or may not have known what he was talking about); one or the other of them (probably Cavalier) said the word 'DSL' or 'highspeed' causing the other tech (probably the Verizon one) to lock out his brain and ears to the rest of the conversation or order. After all, every Verizon (or any generic Bell) tech 'knows' to 'just say no' to any attempt to take away a line which has always been theirs 'if the customer has broadband'. So then the tech (or some know nothing service rep from Cavalier calls you back and tells you Verizon won't let of the line because of your internet. Do you rememeber the game called 'chinese telephone' where people sit in a circle; the one who starts it whispers some nonsense to the person next to him; each person in turn keeps whispering once relaying the same nonsense to the next person; eventually it works its way back to the originator and some distorted answer gets repeated back for the group? That's what I suspect happened to you. *Someone* in the inner circle at Cavalier, their techs, the Verizon techs, and the Verizon policy makers got the facts incorrect. No one at Verizon bothered to check your line for (their version of) high speed internet, nor did anyone at Cavalier step in to clarify the response. They all tossed around words like 'Comcast', 'high speed', 'broadband' and 'DSL' as though they actually knew what they were talking about. So I would put the order in again, and keep my mouth shut about any Internet, period. See if that helps, if you, the customer, do not confuse or overload their tiny, one-volt brains. Don't confuse the typical rep by talking about those things; doesn't matter in your case anyway. PAT] ------------------------------ From: jrefactors@hotmail.com (Matt) ubject: Are USOC and SORD Telecom Standard? Date: 18 Sep 2004 15:58:53 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I want to know if USOC and SORD are telecom standard? I tried to search for useful pointers but I can't. Is USOC to identify the product? For example, usage, orientation, and slot attributes? I want to learn more about that. Can anyone gives me some good URLs on that? Please advise. Thanks!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:20:01 -0700 From: Fedmarket.com Subject: Catch 22: Security Clearances Reply-To: Fedmarket.com Catch 22 - The Security Clearance Process; your company can't get critical security clearances for its personnel until it has a contract requiring clearances and your business can't get a contract requiring clearances until your people and facility are fully cleared. The federal government might not want to admit this but requiring clearances restricts competition and gives those companies holding security clearances a formidable edge in closing a sale. As you can well imagine, the large prime contractors are best positioned when it comes to having security clearances. We therefore suggest that your company get started immediately with trying to obtain security clearances. Although the process can often be somewhat frustrating and painful, obtaining clearances has become increasingly critical in the post-9/11 federal market. The security clearance process can be a significant investment to any company and it is important that companies who are considering this route have a clear understanding of the process. Before investing significant dollars to obtain a security clearance, attend Fedmarket's 1-day seminar on the "Introduction to the Security Clearance Process" and get a layman's definition of what it is all about. This 1-day seminar is an introduction that will give you a high-level understanding of what is required. More importantly, you will have the opportunity to ask specific questions and get it straight from the expert who has conducted and managed many clearances for the National Security Agency. "An Introduction to the Security Clearance Process" provides you with a basis of information on the complexities of obtaining a security clearance in order to make informed decisions. This 1-day seminar provides basic information on the overall security clearance process, which is critical to the overall understanding of the security requirement. Dates and Location: September 27 and October 20 Holiday Inn Select in Bethesda, MD Cost $500 per person, $50 discount for each additional attendee from your company. This 1-day seminar will provide attendees the following information: * A base of knowledge of the entire Security Process, which is critical to the overall understanding of Security. * An understanding of the differences between security requirements of different agencies. * Highlights of the personnel and physical security process. * Guidelines on Information Security. TIME & TOPICS 8:30 - 9:00 Registration and Continental Breakfast 9:00 - 10:30 Security Clearance Overview: Why do I need it and how do I get it? 10:30 - 11:00 Break 11:00 - 12:30 Understanding the Clearance Criteria and Foreign National Issues 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch Break 2:00 - 3:30 Understanding the Different Clearance Levels and their Requirements 3:30 - 4:00 Break 4:00 - 4:30 Questions & Answers (One-on-one discussions with speakers) For more information visit: http://www.fedmarket.com/productTour/seminar/introSecurity.php To register, please print and complete the following form and fax to 208.726.5590. To pay by check, please print and mail form and check to: Fedmarket.com P.O. Box 6639 Ketchum, ID 83340 To register on-line visit our website http://www.fedmarket.com/ or call 888.661.4094 ext 14. Name: ________________________________________ Title: _______________________________________ Company: _____________________________________ Address: ____________________________________ City: ________________________________________ State: _______________________________________ Zip: _________________________________________ Phone: _______________________________________ Fax: _________________________________________ Email: _______________________________________ Credit Card #: _______________________________ Expiration Date: _____________________________ Cardholder Name: _____________________________ (please print) Please check the seminar you would like to attend: (Sept. 27) ______ (Oct. 20) _______ If you have any questions at all, please call or write me. Regards, Shelly Gluck Seminar Coordinator Fedmarket.com sgluck@fedmarket.com (888)661.4094 X14 ------------------------------ From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa Hancock) Subject: Telephone Information - Good and Bad Examples Date: 18 Sep 2004 18:18:49 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I had the occassion to call two different passenger carriers for service information. One was NJ Transit, the other was Metro-North Railroad. Both serve the NYC metro area. NJT was horrible. They had a 15 minute wait the first time I called (1pm weekday), then 10 minute wait (2pm weekday). I can't sit on the phone and wait that long. I then sent them an email -- telling them I couldn't get through on the phone -- and after a few days they wrote back and said to use the phone. So much for common sense. [The information I wanted was not on their webpage]. Metro North RR was great. They had a very simple voice mail menu -- press 1 for automated, simply stay on the line for a person. I waited and virtually immediately a knowledgeable person answered and quickly answered my questions. I asked for schedules to be mailed to me and they came promptly. In today's world of automated systems with no escape, it was nice that at least provider offers good and easy telephone information service. It's too bad most companies and government can't do this. ------------------------------ From: Doug Faunt N6TQS Subject: AAA Battery Pack For StarTac Telephone? Date: 18 Sep 2004 22:55:26 -0400 Organization: at home, in Oakland, California Back when I was using a StarTac telephone I bought a battery case from Radio Shack, their number 23-1481. It's turned out to be most useful when using the StarTac as a backup or loaner 'phone with prepaid service. My wife has also got one of these 'phones and would like to locate another such a battery case. Any pointers? 73, doug ------------------------------ From: ckm1955@gmail.com (Huntley Meadows) Subject: Telephone to PC Messaging Date: 18 Sep 2004 22:02:59 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I often find I am surfing the net on a dial-up modem when my daughter is trying to reach me. She finds me hogging the only telephone at home, and is unable to reach me. Short of my getting a second phone or broadband, is there a cheaper solution? I was wondering specifically as to whether there is a way for my daughter to send a message using some service whereby the message would show up on my PC in real-time (a la IM), so as to allow me to get off the phone to receive her call. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Do you have a cell phone? Call-forward or (have telco) hunt to your cell phone. Does your telco also offer voicemail? Have your inbound calls (when line is busy) go to voice mail. Also I should mention that America OnLine has a service of their own referred to as 'call waiting' where your phone is call-forwarded to some 800 number of theirs; when AOL sees an incoming call for your number, if you are on line (with them, naturally) they will send a flash message to your screen saying "(caller ID of caller) is trying to get through to you" or some words like that. PAT] ------------------------------ From: alex_s_42@yahoo.com (Alex T.) Subject: Cordless Phone Date: 19 Sep 2004 00:47:07 -0700 I'm shopping for a cordless phone. It appears that I have a number of options: 1. 900MHz, 2.4GHz or 5.8Gz 2. analog or DSS It seems to me that 900MHz DSS (spread spectrum) should be a better option, since it won't interfere with my WLAN network and has lower power, both because it's spread spectrum and also because it has lower frequency. The problem is, there are seems to be no more new models in 900MHz range, all the new ones are 5.8GHz. One thing that adds to confuision is the fact that sometimes they write on the box "digital", instead of DSS, whatever that means. Anyway, what would you recommend? Advice on specific model would be appriciated. I'm not looking for anything too fancy, just good sound quality, no interference with WLAN, DSS and answering machine. ------------------------------ From: John Dearing Subject: Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:07:36 GMT Leander Vanhulle wrote: > I have an external serial port connected with usb on my computer. My > original port is broken. How do you let it work under DOS as COM1, > with Windows its no problem but it doesn't work under DOS. And it probably won't since DOS has no built-in support for USB. You'd need to get USB drivers for DSO from the manufacturer of the USB to serial adapter. Good luck, many pretend as if DOS never existed. 8-( John Dearing A+, Network+ [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yes, they do, and 'tis a pity, because there are simply some things which I can do better/easier under DOS than under Windows. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Gary Breuckman Subject: Re: USB to Serial Convertor as COM1 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:17:11 -0500 Organization: Puma's Lair - catbox.com In article , "Leander Vanhulle" wrote: > I have an external serial port connected with usb on my computer. My > original port is broken. How do you let it work under DOS as COM1, with > Windows its no problem but it doesn't work under DOS. USB support is part of Windows, it won't work under DOS, but might work with a DOS window inside Windows. A serial card that installs in the expansion area and is recognized at boot might be better. That's one of the problem with USB mice and keyboards, they won't work in the bios setup of your system, or if there's a hardware error on startup (press F1 to continue ... good luck). They only work once Windows has booted. -- Gary Breuckman ------------------------------ From: AES/newspost Subject: Re: Intuit Pits Its Customers Against Its Partners Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:37:57 -0700 In article , tom.horsley@att.net (Thomas A. Horsley) wrote: > I expect Quicken 2006 to charge you a nickel for each line item you > add and stop working if you don't send in payment every month. You've written this in "hyperbole mode" (I believe), but it also seems to me it's the direction that Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit, and most every other big software provider would probably like to take, if they can get away with it -- and I guess all I can say is that, for myself at least, any time anything like this comes along, all I can do is bail out to open software as fast as I can, for any of the many software tools I currently use. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: But all those software providers -- in particular Microsoft -- are getting eaten alive by professional cheats, aren't they? What else should they do if they are going to remain in business? PAT] ------------------------------ From: jkarevoll@yahoo.com (JayKay) Subject: Re: Best Phone to Use For Radio Telephone Interviews? Date: 18 Sep 2004 16:05:45 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com a_user2000@yahoo.com (Justin Time) wrote in message news:: > jkarevoll@yahoo.com (JayKay) wrote in message > news:> I get called fairly often by radio stations for commentary. My current >> phone, AT&T 2-line 962, apparently doesn't cut it and I often find >> myself calling the studios back from the fax phone (a little better) >> or (after hooking it up) from a 25-year old rotary phone for call >> clarity (even better). >> But I'd like to get a new office phone that would be OK for these >> talk/news people. >> Any suggestions? > If the radio stations are that interested in using you as an unpaid > "expert and consultant" then have them put in a digital line. A 2B+D > ISDN line, using NS-1 signalling is pretty much the standard for all > the talk shows and remote broadcasts done in our area. Thanks, I'll look into it! kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in message news:: > sounds better than an old 500-set on the other end. Your next step > up as far as audio quality goes ... > --scott What's an old 500-set? Thanks. JK [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: 'an old 500 set' is a Genuine Bell System standard home telephone instrument from the 1960-70's era. 500's were rotary dial sets; 2500's were the touch tone variety of the same thing. Real faithful work horses; many millions of them still in service around the USA. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Al Gillis Subject: Re: Conference Call With Four Parties? Programming Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:14:29 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com John McHarry wrote in message news:telecom23.432.10@telecom-digest.org: > rd wrote: >> Wondering how we can program the Nortel system to have ourselves and 3 >> other parties connected. We have programmed for 3 outgoing lines but >> cannot connect the 3rd party. Getting a message saying only 3 three >> partes are allowed to be on conference call. Any help will be greatly >> appreciated. > You didn't say what Nortel system. > Anyway, going above three parties requires a more sophisticated > bridge. Unless you have payed a premium for such, you are probably at > your limit. In the Nortel Meridian-1 product line (Option 11 through Option 81) There is a class of service parameter, "A06" in older software and C6A on newer software will allow six-party conferences. Six sound Ok when all are internal -- when some conference participants are on trunks the transmission levels get a little low. Oh, you're talking about a NorStar? Sorry -- I don't know how or if six party conferences apply to NorStars. Al ------------------------------ From: Dave Garland Subject: Re: Google Ad Sense Installed Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:14:13 -0500 Organization: Wizard Information It was a dark and stormy night when TELECOM Digest Editor wrote: > Actually, this page looks best when you come here to my house, sit > at my terminal and view it. Damn, that's the most honest self-appraisal of a website that I've seen in a long time! If it comes to that, I'll bring pizza. :) [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Way, way back, in the middle 1990's, in the pre-BA (Brain Aneurysm) days, I used to have a love affair with javascript and web pages. You show me some javascript which would put a clock on a web page or do something equally fancy and I was all for installing it; sounds, visual images, klutzy midi files, you name it; I did it. Some of the javascripts even had provisions built in them to *first examine the computer, get the working browser to answer back with its type/model, then modify the javascript itself as needed to give the best presentation of the page to the viewer.* Some of it was absolutely crazy. Then following two heart attacks I had my brain aneurysm (which is basically a serious stroke), was in the hospital for three months, and rehabilitative therapy for a year following. Never a very good web page writer, my brain disease caused me to forget most of what code I had written and keep me (even today) still too tired and frustrated to try and figure out what I had written. In the process of putting the Google Adsense thing up (which coincidentally has already earned me five dollars/eighty cents if the stats page on Google is to be believed) I managed to *totally jazz up* the latest-issue.html page so it would not run at all. One of my heros -- a guy living in Madison, WI who says he wants no mention in the Digest, so we will let it go at that -- took my whining, tearful phone call Friday night, moved in on that page on massis, and brought it around to even looking a wee bit better than I had it earlier. Thank you, Mrs. Kalabash, or whoever you are, but *you* know who you are and *I* know who you are. Actually the whole damn http://telecom-digest.org web site needs **much cleaning up** to get back to its original purpose which was to be a web-based archive of back issues, etc, and my hassle is my brain disease keeps me from giving it the attention it needs. If anyone wants to put together an index.html page and three or four other inside pages to point at the files, etc, they're welcome to do it for me. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Isaiah Beard Subject: Re: Packet 8 Share and Score Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:58:18 -0400 Jack Decker wrote: > Andy Abramson, in his VoIP watch blog at > http://andyabramson.blogs.com/voipwatch/ notes that Packet8 seems to > be the latest VoIP company to implement a customer referral program: > [Begin quote:] > Keith of VoIPNuke, who has resold Packet8 longer than anyone I know, > pointed me to the new P8 referral program > . > This is taking a page out of both Vonage and AT&T's playbook. Packet8 has actually been doing this in a different for for quite a while. Anyone with a Packet8 account could sign up to be an "affiliate," a program which as far as I can tell is still in existence. When you did this, you would get a referral code (in my case, referral code 'scrdpoet') that you could pass out to anyone, and they'd get from $5 to $20 off their activation when they place an order on the packet8 website and use the code. You would also get a credit for the referral. Best of all, it does have the advantage over share and score that you don't need to get a person's e-mail address to refer them ... they just enter the referral code and get the credit. Any number of people can use the same code. E-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and other forums. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. Contact information: Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest Post Office Box 50 Independence, KS 67301 Phone: 620-402-0134 Fax 1: 775-255-9970 Fax 2: 530-309-7234 Fax 3: 208-692-5145 Email: editor@telecom-digest.org Subscribe: telecom-subscribe@telecom-digest.org Unsubscribe:telecom-unsubscribe@telecom-digest.org This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm- unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then. Our archives are available for your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list on the internet in any category! 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Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. End of TELECOM Digest V23 #434 ******************************