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Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #393

TELECOM Digest     Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:33:00 EDT    Volume 23 : Issue 393

Inside This Issue:                             Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    SS7 via Cable/Air? Factor Deciding This Medium? (qazmlp)
    Verizon Cable TV? (Lisa Hancock)
    Re: Internet Patent Claims Stir Concern (jmeissen@aracnet.com)
    Re: Internet Patent Claims Stir Concern (Joseph)
    Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake (Jack Hamilton)
    Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake (Steven J. Sobol)
    Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake (Mark Crispin)
    Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake (Joseph)
    Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake (John Levine)
    Re: How Do I Get "Kewlstart" From my Phone Company? (Kyler Laird)
    Re: How Do I Get "Kewlstart" From my Phone Company? (Ken Abrams)
    Re: Rotary Step Relays (DonS)
    Re: Microsoft Pays Dear For Insults Through Ignorance (Joseph)
    Re: Number Not in Use (Tim@Backhome.org)
    Re: Transmission Time Calculation & Impact of Distance (Scott Dorsey)
    Last Laugh! was Re: VOIP Firm Tussles With States (John Levine)

All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the
individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other
journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are
included in the fair use quote.  By using -any name or email address-
included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article
herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the
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               ===========================

Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be
sold or given away without explicit written consent.  Chain letters,
viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome.

We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because
we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime.   Geoffrey Welsh

               ===========================

See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: qazmlp1209@rediffmail.com (qazmlp)
Subject: SS7 via Cable/Air? Factor Deciding This Medium?
Date: 21 Aug 2004 01:44:24 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com


What exactly is the medium of transferring SS7 messages? Is this via
Fiber optic cables? Is it possible to transfer SS7 messages via air?

Also, I would like to know about what exactly is the factor that
mainly decides about the mode of communication like whether via cable
or air etc. Is it the frequency of the messages?

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa Hancock)
Subject: Verizon Cable TV?
Date: 21 Aug 2004 11:06:05 -0700


Verizon is stringing new wires in our neighborhood and we've heard
rumors (unconfirmed) that they're planning to introduce Cable TV and
other services.

I presume this is now legal due to deregulation of both cable and
telephone industries.

Many of the neighbors are excited about this prospect.  When cable was
regulated, an intermediate-teir customer paid $35/month, just a few
years later it's up to $50/month under deregulation.  The cable
company is very profitable.

Anyone have any experience with Verizon cable TV or other
new services?

------------------------------

From: jmeissen@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Internet Patent Claims Stir Concern
Date: 21 Aug 2004 07:31:56 GMT
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com


In article <telecom23.392.4@telecom-digest.org>,
Joseph  <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Well, it's pretty evident that you're going to believe what you want
> to believe so even if the NYT says that they won't send you
> unsolicited offers if you opt out when you register you believe they
> will so it appears that there's no way to mollify you.  You're better
> off not registering and using someone else's registration or not going
> to NYT links.

I suspect it's a matter of being burned so often that eventually you
decide you can't trust anyone, regardless of their reputation or the
testimonials. I mean, how often are you going to be Charlie Brown,
trusting Lucy to hold the football?

Privacy policies can change, without notice.  Yahoo added a bunch of
marketing preferences to their user accounts and automatically opted
everyone in as the default. Most account sign-ups that offer opt-in
selections have them checked by default, so if you don't look very,
very closely you opt yourself in to their marketing.

Think about it; why require an email address at all? There's only
one reason, really.

John Meissen                                   jmeissen@aracnet.com

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note:  I am well aware, very mindful of the
*excellent* reputation NYT has in many circles. I read it often times
myself. I am also aware of the very good reputation Yahoo used to
enjoy a few years ago before they changed their policy on privacy and
advertising. I am also aware that Yahoo attempts to slip in a spy
cookie when you call their page; I deliberatly reject their attempts
to install 'Avenue A' cookies on my computers when I use Yahoo daily
for news and a free email service. Yahoo never talks about it, except
in an oblique way in their 'privacy notice', but day after day, the
Avenue A spy cookie shows up when I use one of the Yahoo properties.
I only get notice of it because *my* computer and *my* copy of Ad-
Aware tells me Avenue A was sent away. No one who ever uses those 
cookies ever bothers to tell you about it; they just slip it in place. 
But note how if you attempt to login to a Yahoo site with a heavy
Proximotron filter in place, Yahoo won't even accept your login. 

And your point about 'why does NYT even need email addresses' is a
good one also. In the registration process, if you decide to opt out
on receiving notices or advertising it ought to be sufficient to 
simply *not* give an email address, rather than have to give it and
then add your opt-out as well. If NYT was so pure in their motives,
why not just put the news on display on the web site and let anyone
go in and read without registration at all? If they want to count the
number of 'hits' each day on their pages, that's understandable, or
if they want to have a *purely voluntary* system of registration (like
a 'guest book' approach) that's okay also. I do not mean to pick on 
NYT about this, but as the web grows in size and sophistication I
have seen many, many otherwise good sites fall victim to the lure of
'easy money'. Google, for example, would love to have a crack at
advertising to the eight thousand more or less daily viewers of
telecom-digest.org and have tried to encourage me to get on the band
wagon. They have invited me in, and discouraged me telling readers
here of what I am doing. "Just take this bit of code we send you, and
install it here and there around your site. Don't bother telling the
readers what you did; many will just complain about it anyway."  There
are many, very powerful people in the world who want to see the
Internet become a totally commercial thing. There are still a few of
us who want to see Internet stay as a cooperative free thing among
the people. PAT]

------------------------------

From: Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Internet Patent Claims Stir Concern
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:11:46 -0700
Reply-To: JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com


On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:39:31 -0700, Telecom Digest editor wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Any number of companies which send
> spam out make that claim, i.e. "you must have mistakenly agreed to
> accept our stuff."    PAT]

As I said you will believe what you want to believe.

------------------------------

From: Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org>
Subject: Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:56:41 -0700
Organization: Copyright (c) 2004 by Jack Hamilton.
Reply-To: jfh@acm.org


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: John are you *certain* the Cingular and
> AT&T Wireless handsets are interchangable? Reason I ask is the AT&T
> rep said AT&T locked the firmware in the phone so they could NOT be
> swapped with any other service (Nokia 6100 series at least) and the
> Cingular Wireless rep and the Alltel rep both confirmed the same
> thing. The Alltel tech at their shop here in Independence spent close
> to an hour attempting to reprogram my Nokia 6100 phone to work on
> their network  with no success.    PAT]

What that often means is that the phone is required to use a SIM card
from the provider from which you bought the phone.  It doesn't really
have anything to do with roaming.

There seems to be a healthy market for phone unlocking programs and
codes -- try Googling "unlock cingular SIM", for example.  Sometimes
it's possible, and sometimes it's not -- rumor has it that no one
outside the factory knows how to unlock certain ATTWS phones.  ATTWS
seems to have the worst attitude towards unlocking phones, by the way
 -- they won't unlock a phone even after your contract is over and the
phone is paid for, and they refuse to admit that it might even be
possible to do so.  I was once told by an ATTWS technician that I
couldn't be talking to him, because the phone I was using wouldn't
work on their network.  True, I might as well not have been talking to
him for all the good it did me.

That phone was an unlocked Cingular Nokia 6340i I bought on eBay.  It
said "Cingular" on the display, but worked fine with an ATTWS SIM. I
finally got sick of ATTWS's deteriorating coverage and poor customer
service and switched to Verizon Wireless.


Jack Hamilton
jfh@acm.org


In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and
security.  And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and
security.  Edward Gibbons

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: When I first re-located here to
Independence, Kansas from Chicago I had a Nokia 6100 cell phone
programmed onto AT&T Wireless with a Chicago area (630) number, in 
the 'national no-roaming charges' plan. AT&T served us here as an
'extended' point (closest major city is Tulsa) on the Cell One tower
out of Liberty, KS.  We are *barely* in the AT&T extended area of
coverage; it was pretty awful service. Then one day, AT&T decided
to close up our local shop here, and the AT&T service rep that was
here in town told me that she was going to become an agency for
Cingular Wireless instead, and 'her employees' there would become
Cingular Wireless employees also as of some date. She converted my
Nokia 6100 phone over from area 630 Chicago to an area 620 southeast
Kansas number, put me on a local plan (no more free roaming) but 
kept me on AT&T. I think she said I was her last customer while she
represented AT&T. 

A week or so later, I went past her shop downtown; it now had a 
'Cingular Wireless' sign on the front of it and a huge stack of
Nokia 6100 series phones in the window for a 'close out' sale. Take
a year contract on Cingular Wireless and get one of those phones
for free. I told her since I already have a Nokia 6100 phone which
I like, just cut it over to Cingular for me. She said "AT&T has
that phone of your's locked up tight. No way to do it; but the same
phone is on close out now through Cingular Wireless; take one of
them for free."  I told her I did not want to lose my phone listings
or the other features I had programmed into *my* phone. She said
most of what was in there she could 'suck out' and move it into the
new phone (directory items; she pointed at a device on her desk
with a jumper which went from one Nokia 6100 phone to another Nokia
6100 phone), "but not the transmission software, which is why you
have to get a new phone". Before I agreed to that, I went to the
other cell phone agencies around town (Cell One, Alltel, US Cellular)
and had them look at my phone. They had the same answer: "If you
choose to not stay with AT&T then you may as well junk the phone. It
is good for nothing else." (I wanted to make sure it was not just
the Cingular Wireless lady with a grudge against her former employer
AT&T). I took her offer of a 'new' Nokia 6100 phone and a new one
year contract with Cingular Wireless. I then had the 'old' Nokia
6100 phone converted to AT&T Wireless Prepaid service and buy about
ten dollars in advance every three months or so to keep it active
with an area 316 number (AT&T never did offer any 620 numbers) and
I use it (quite rarely) as a standby phone in emergencies.  PAT]  

------------------------------

From: Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
Subject: Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:10:31 -0500


John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: John are you *certain* the Cingular and
> AT&T Wireless handsets are interchangable? Reason I ask is the AT&T
> rep said AT&T locked the firmware in the phone so they could NOT be

Yes. Locking is one thing. The technology is still compatible. Sprint
locks its phones too, but if you can social-engineer the Master
Subsidy Lock code out of them, you can use a tri-mode Sprint phone on
Alltel or Verizon. Both of those carriers use CDMA like Sprint and
both are willing to activate other carriers' handsets as long as those
handsets use CDMA.

> thing. The Alltel tech at their shop here in Independence spent close
> to an hour attempting to reprogram my Nokia 6100 phone to work on
> their network  with no success.    PAT]

Well, of course; Alltel doesn't run GSM and the 6100 is a GSM
phone. If the 6100 has analog you MIGHT be able to get it to run in
analog if Alltel has analog coverage. Maybe.


JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ 
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California     Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

------------------------------

From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:28:43 -0700
Organization: University of Washington


On Fri, 21 Aug 2004, John Levine wrote:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: John are you *certain* the Cingular and
> AT&T Wireless handsets are interchangable? Reason I ask is the AT&T
> rep said AT&T locked the firmware in the phone so they could NOT be
> swapped with any other service (Nokia 6100 series at least) and the
> Cingular Wireless rep and the Alltel rep both confirmed the same
> thing. The Alltel tech at their shop here in Independence spent close
> to an hour attempting to reprogram my Nokia 6100 phone to work on
> their network  with no success.    PAT]

Unlike CDMA, TDMA, or analog phones, "reprogramming" a GSM phone is simply 
a matter of changing the SIM card in the phone.

ATTWS "SIM locks" their handsets, so that the handset will not accept a 
non-ATTWS SIM card.  Unlike most GSM carriers, ATTWS will not unlock your 
handset for any reason (not even if you're a long-time customer and/or are 
willing to pay for the privilege); nor will they sell you an ATTWS SIM 
card to put into an existing unlocked GSM phone.

It is for this reason, among others, that I would not consider buying GSM 
service from ATTWS.

If you look at the used cell phone market, you'll see that an
"unlocked" (either officially or by hackers) GSM phone commands a
premium over one which is still SIM locked.  Hacker SIM unlocking is a
big business in Europe, although I believe it's actually illegal in
some countries over there.  It's legal in the US as long as you're not
doing so for fraudulent purposes; when you buy a phone, title
transfers to you, and the only recourse the selling phone company has
is to make you sign a service commitment and hit you with an early
cancellation penalty if you break it.

I wonder what Dobson's policy is on GSM unlocking.  My Alaska cell
phone service is currently TDMA with Dobson.  I'm in no rush to switch
it to GSM, and by the time the plug is pulled on TDMA I'm going to
give serious consideration to satellite instead of GSM.

At least Verizon has decided that handset locking is silly, and
doesn't do it; all modern Verizon phones have a "security code" or
"unlock code" of 000000.  It's good press for them, and it doesn't
really matter since most other CDMA carriers (at least, SprintPCS and
Telus) will not active an ex-Verizon phone on their networks even
though technically it will work.  Verizon *will* activate an
ex-SprintPCS or ex-Telus phone on its network as long as you get the
security code for it and accept the risk of it not working right.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc

Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

------------------------------

From: Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:09:29 -0700
Reply-To: JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com


On 21 Aug 2004 02:03:21 -0000, John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:

> My Cingular phone is quad mode, GSM 1900, GSM 800, TDMA 800, and
> analog 800, and roams just fine onto AT&T in places like Pittsburgh
> where Cingular has no service.  My plan offers national roaming, so it
> doesn't cost any extra when I do so.

Your cingular phone is not quad *mode*!  It is tri-mode with dual band
GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and AMPS.  If it was quad mode it would have to be
able to do four separate types of mobile/cell technologies such as
GSM, TDMA, CDMA and AMPS.  It's multi *band* but that is not the same
thing.

Telecom Digest Editor went on to comment:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: John are you *certain* the Cingular and
> AT&T Wireless handsets are interchangable? Reason I ask is the AT&T
> rep said AT&T locked the firmware in the phone so they could NOT be
> swapped with any other service (Nokia 6100 series at least) and the
> Cingular Wireless rep and the Alltel rep both confirmed the same
> thing. The Alltel tech at their shop here in Independence spent close
> to an hour attempting to reprogram my Nokia 6100 phone to work on
> their network  with no success.    PAT]

AT&T "SOC" locks their phones to work with their system.  I've heard
(but haven't personally experienced it) that they can be programmed
over the air to use the other company's network, but the problem lies
in that it will work fine when you're not in the other company's area,
but when you are in the company's area that the phone originally was
on there are problems.  You could probably "fix" the problem by having
the phone re-flashed with the firmware that the other company uses,
but you'd have to do it independently from the manufacturer since they
probably wouldn't put another company's firmware on someone else's
phone even though the actual phones are exactly the same.  The
firmware is different and is customized for a particular carrier.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 2004 16:09:34 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Re: Choosing AT&T Wireless Worst Mistake
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: John are you *certain* the Cingular
> and AT&T Wireless handsets are interchangable?

No, the Cingular ones are programmed to look for Cingular systems and
the AT&T ones are programmed to look for AT&T systems, but in each
case if they can't find their favorite, they can and do roam on the
other since they're both TDMA and GSM.

The GSM handsets are also locked so that they only work with SIM cards
of the carrier that sold it to you.  All handsets can be unlocked with
the cooperation of the selling carrier, some can be unlocked without.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: How Do I Get "Kewlstart" From my Phone Company?
From: Kyler Laird <Kyler@news.Lairds.org>
Organization: Insight Broadband
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:53:36 GMT


Doug McIntyre <merlyn@visi.com> writes:

> As such, you won't find any telco offering it, because its a special
> mode that Asterisk has for its FXO cards on a plain old loopstart
> telephone line.

And yet others make money selling devices to detect it from "most
modern electronic COs".  http://www.sandman.com/cpcbull.html


--kyler

------------------------------

From: Ken Abrams <k_abrams@[REMOVETHIS]sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: How Do I Get "Kewlstart" From my Phone Company?
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 13:54:23 GMT


Tony P. <kd1s@nospamplease.verizon.reallynospam.net> wrote

> What ever happened to CPC? I forget exactly how it worked but the
> switch would actually reverse polarity on the line to indicate the
> call had dropped or some such.

On a pots, loop start line, the reversal occurs at answer (on an
outgoing call).  This indicates answer supervision to a connected PBX.

------------------------------

From: Don_Shoemaker@HotMail.com (DonS)
Subject: Re: Rotary Step Relays
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:10:13 GMT
Organization: Road Runner - NC


In article <telecom23.388.9@telecom-digest.org>, John Schuch
<news@esdres.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of a source for rotary stepping relays? AKA Step
> relays, sequencing relays, Strowger relays. I need several that have
> at least two poles, and 10 positions. Yea, I know I could accomplish
> the same thing fairly simply with electronics, but this is an "art
> project", and the coolness is the sound and action of the old relays.

> I searched the web ad-nausium with no luck.

An alternative to the suggestions in the other posts may be to use a
stepper mech from an old electro-mechanical pinball (1977 or earlier).
Check on eBay or the classified section of www.MrPinball.com.

-don

------------------------------

From: Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Pays Dear For Insults Through Ignorance
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:14:28 -0700
Reply-To: JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com


On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:20:58 GMT, William Warren
<william_warren_nonoise@comcast.net> wrote:

> What we need to succeed in business (or, for that matter,
> International Politics) is knowledge about people, not places.

But people live in places!  And just to inform the country in South
America is *not* Columbia it is Colombia!!!!!

[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: A lady in Colombia called me on the
phone once and in our discussion (about something else) she complained
to me that "most people in the USA think our country is spelled
the same as 'District of Columbia' because they do not know better."
PAT]

------------------------------

From: Tim@Backhome.org
Subject: Re: Number Not in Use
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:18:14 -0700
Organization: Cox Communications


Tony P. wrote:

>> Even after they used a separate ringing tone, it was usually
>> operated by the same relay that applied ringing current to the
>> called party.

> Not anymore. I tried a test and called my home number from my cell --
> heard ring tone on the cell but the home phone rang about a second AFTER
> ring tone had ended.

Of course, "not anymore."  The reference was to how the ringing tone
was changed on step-by-step switches.  On electronic switching, which
is all there is around these days, the ring voltage and ring tone have
always been independent functions, since circa 1965.

------------------------------

From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Transmission Time Calculation & Impact of Distance on it
Date: 21 Aug 2004 11:46:15 -0400
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)


John McHarry  <mcharryj@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> The reference has to be to photons, or any emf for that matter (lower
> frequency photons are rather porcine and more wave like at our scale)
> in a vacuum. They are always somewhat slower in media, since, like
> dogs, they tend to pause to sniff things as they pass. Transmission
> lines tend to give 65-80% of c as velocity constants.

No.  A _pulse_ travels at that rate, but the rate of an actual
electron is much slower.  Imagine a row of golf balls.  You tap on the
back one, and almost instantly the one at the front shakes.  But it
takes a lot of tapping for the whole row to move forward to the front.

--scott

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 2004 17:23:53 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Last Laugh! was Re: VoIP Firm Tussles With States On Phone Numbers
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


>> Without an unfettered supply of phone numbers from NANPA, SBC IP
>> argues, it and other carriers' rollouts of Net phone service will be
>> hampered. 

> Employees of Vonage, VoicePulse and other VoIP services would laugh
> at that.  SBC continues as the absolute lamest telecom company in
> existence.

Oh, you just don't understand.  The RBOCs have always had a
sooper-sekrit agreement that they won't invade each other's
territories.  For example, a few years back they were all complaining
that the wholesale rates for CLECs that wanted to resell local phone
service were so low that they were below cost.  So someone asked the
obvious question: If they're that low, why aren't you making big buck$
reselling each other's services, since you just told us that would be
more profitable than selling your own?  The only answer was a fairly
sniffy "we don't do that."

So they can't file as CLECs in each other's territories since We Don't
Do That.  They sure don't want to buy service through existing CLECs
as Vonage et al do, since those are the very same CLECs they've been
shafting for the past decade or two who would be unlikely to pass up
an opportunity to turn the tables.

What's a poor RBOC to do?  Go whine to the FCC and hope that Chairman
Mike will make things all better.  He's always given them all of the
nonsense they wanted in the past.  Why should he stop now?


John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 330 5711
johnl@iecc.com, Mayor, http://johnlevine.com, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Was anyone else as amused as I was by
hearing SBC referred to in the header as a 'VOIP Firm'?  So now that 
they have called the shots for so many years, all of a sudden they
want to be known as an underdog? Poor, pitiful, put upon SBC!    PAT]

------------------------------

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End of TELECOM Digest V23 #393
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