From editor@telecom-digest.org Tue Jul 6 15:59:57 2004 Received: (from ptownson@localhost) by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p3/8.11.3) id i66JxvJ23449; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:59:57 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <200407061959.i66JxvJ23449@massis.lcs.mit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: massis.lcs.mit.edu: ptownson set sender to editor@telecom-digest.org using -f To: ptownson Approved: patsnewlist Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #319 TELECOM Digest Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:00:00 EDT Volume 23 : Issue 319 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson You've Got Mail (and Court Says Others Can Read It) (Monty Solomon) Voice Logic VP 206 Manual Addendum (Roger Jacobs) Entering the Push-to-Talk Market (Elena Colle) Re: Coca-Cola Cans as Security Threat (Al Gillis) Re: Internet Phone Service For Every Home Not Far Off (Jack Decker) Re: Software Has Some Seeing Red/Harvard Grad Gains Overnight (L Madison) Re: Comment re Norvergence and Another re Telecom Digest (Steven J Sobol) Re: Norvergence Offics Raided by FBI (Lisa Hancock) Norvergence - How do I Get Out (n-line@juno.com) Re: General Observation re: Norvergence (Jay Hennigan) Norvergence : Mob Affiliations? (Alessandra Di Maggio) Message Waiting Light Compatible IAD or Channel Bank? (Jay Hennigan) All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 01:17:46 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: You've Got Mail (and Court Says Others Can Read It) By SAUL HANSELL When everything is working right, an e-mail message appears to zip instantaneously from the sender to the recipient's inbox. But in reality, most messages make several momentary stops as they are processed by various computers en route to their destination. Those short stops may make no difference to the users, but they make an enormous difference to the privacy that e-mail is accorded under federal law. Last week a federal appeals court in Boston ruled that federal wiretap laws do not apply to e-mail messages if they are stored, even for a millisecond, on the computers of the Internet providers that process them -- meaning that it can be legal for the government or others to read such messages without a court order. The ruling was a surprise to many people, because in 1986 Congress specifically amended the wiretap laws to incorporate new technologies like e-mail. Some argue that the ruling's implications could affect emerging applications like Internet-based phone calls and Gmail, Google's new e-mail service, which shows advertising based on the content of a subscriber's e-mail messages. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/06/technology/06net.html ------------------------------ From: raj@lauhala.com (Roger Jacobs) Subject: Voice Logic VP 206 Manual Addendum Date: 6 Jul 2004 04:32:00 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I bought a VP 206 on eBay and was pretty confused until I found this very helpful manual addendum. It was in google cache and might not be around for long, so I have reposted it here: http://omnisphere.com/support-docs/voice-pro-manual-addendum.pdf ------------------------------ Subject: Entering the Push-to-Talk Market Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 14:50:36 +0100 From: Elena Colle ENTERING THE PUSH-TO-TALK MARKET Debating how to integrate Push-To-Talk services to the wireless offer 5th, 6th & 7th October 2004 Hilton Kensington, Central London The agenda is now complete - REQUEST YOUR BROCHURE TODAY SPEAKERS and TOPICS ARE LISTED BELOW Push-to-talk services look set to be the next 'killer app'. It has the potential to increase revenues both to attract new customers and as a value-added service for existing ones. This conference will gather representatives of the wireless industry to discuss the potential and challenges related to the deployment of PTT services. Over the two days participants will be able to engage in the debate on how best to integrate PTT services in operators' strategies by adopting innovative marketing strategies and revenue-enhancing models. BENEFITS OF ATTENDING: **Debate challenges in PTT deployment with industry leaders in an interactive event **Discuss the compatibility issues relating to pre-standardised PTT solutions **Determine marketing strategies to attract varied customer group **Understand how to integrate PTT services to the wireless offer CONFIRMED SPEAKERS INCLUDE: **Asko Nuutinen, Technology Specialist, Research and Development, Elisa **Charlie Henderson, Director, Push To Talk Over Cellular Group, EMEA Region, Motorola **Markku Savusalo, Director Push To Talk, Nokia **Dr. Eduard Scheiterer, Vice President Business Line Manager IMS/PoC, Siemens Mobile Networks **James Tagg, European Managing Director, Fastmobile **Niclas Medman, Senior Marketing Manager, Ericsson AB **Wade Vesey, Chief Marketing Officer, Sonim Technologies **Mark Horne, Managing Director, Mobile Tornado **Gopan Madathil, Director Strategic Marketing OSS Division, Agilent Technologies **Tony Cooper, Partner, Technology, Media and Telecommunications Group, Deloitte **Craig Farrill, Chief Executive Officer, Kodiak Networks WHO SHOULD/WILL ATTEND: - VP/Director Product Innovation - VP/Director Technology - Heads of Strategy and Business Development - Senior Product Manager - Director/Head of Voice Services - Director/Head of PTT Marketing - Director/Head of PTT Pricing - Director/Head of Messaging Products - Head of Standards - VP Sales & Marketing - Product Manager - PTT Engineer - Consultants ----------------------------------------------------------------- This event will also feature: Pre-conference Interactive Workshop ----------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-conference workshop, Tuesday 5th October Delivering information to a mobile workforce Led by Duncan Gerrard, APD Communications This workshop is designed to provide an in-depth look into business customers needs for mobile information management and how to offer them the best solutions to meet their requirements. It will include an overview of the current offer, and case studies on mobile information management plans implemented by organisations in the UK. The interactive format will provide the opportunity for all participants to discuss how to offer business customers the best mobile information solutions, and what PTT service providers can learn from existing solutions. Benefits of attending: * Understand working practices to deliver efficient mobile information management * Discuss innovative ways to deliver adapted mobile solutions to varied organisations Places at this event are limited, please call or email me now to secure your place - PRICING - Attend the: ** Conf. + pre conf. workshop GBP 1600.00 Plus VAT ** Conference only Fee: GBP 1299.00 Plus VAT ** Pre conference workshop only Fee: GBP 650.00 Plus VAT - BOOKINGS - Booking is easy, simply contact Elena Colle on: Telephone: +44 (0)20 8767 6711 Fax: +44 (0)20 8767 5001 Email: mailto:elena.colle@visiongain.com Terms and conditions apply - see below. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Regards, Elena Colle Account Manager Visiongain b2b Conferences Tel: +44 (0) 20 8767 6711 http://www.b2b-conferences.com +++++++++++ FULL AGENDA +++++++++++ DAY ONE Wednesday 6 th October 2004 8:50 Registration and coffee Conference Chair Tony Cooper Partner Deloitte 9:20 Opening address from the Chair PTT market overview: industry leaders, value chain and revenue opportunities * Historic of the Push To Talk offer: operators and services deployed in the original US market * The evolution from the US to Europe and how the markets differ * Revenue opportunities expected from PTT services Tony Cooper, Partner Deloitte SCHEDULING DEPLOYMENT OF PTT SERVICES: STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY REQUIREMENTS TO ENTER THE MARKET 9:40 Implementing a PTT strategy with pre-standardised solutions * What is the experience of starting with pre-standard Push To Talk solution in GSM? * How to guarantee successful Push To Talk services to start in 2004 * How interoperability issues affect deployment of PTT services * The way forward to the OMA standard solution Markku Savusalo Director Push To Talk Nokia 10:20 How to deploy an IMS-based PoC solution for mass market adoption * What specific requirements does mass market imply and how to fulfil them? * Identifying the reasons to select a standard-based push to talk solution * Determining the keys to successfully introduce PTT over Cellular in a live network Niclas Medman, Senior Marketing Manager Ericsson 11:00 Coffee 11:20 Enabling revenue-enhancing PTT services with instant wireless voice systems and applications * Advanced voice systems with the Kodiak Real-Time Exchange (RTX) System * Technology solutions to enhance user experience and increase operators' revenues * Technology neutrality and interoperability * Benefits and challenges for operators, device manufacturers, OS vendors Craig Farrill, Chief Executive Officer Kodiak Networks 12:00 Analysing the role of the handset offer in PTT take off * Handset manufacturers' reactions to the risks of implementing PTT * Determining the handset features that are reasonable to implement and at what incremental unit cost * The PTT handset roadmap that make commercial sense to handset manufacturers? * Key top-level technical issues to drive PTT handset time-to-market Amir Rozenberg, PTT Product Manager TTPCom Ltd. 12:30 Lunch 13:40 A genuine multi-modal instant communication service: Elisa's trial of PTT * Enabling a complete service: instant messaging, picture messaging and voice communication in one application * Working with vendors to develop user-friendly and multi-standard compatible devices * Determining the right time to launch PTT services * Marketing strategies to maximise take-off Asko Nuutinen Technology Specialist Elisa Research & Development 14:20 From Trials to Commercials - A vendor perspective on Push to Talk * Benefits and challenges in developing an end-to-end PoC solution, from mobile phones, middleware, and applications up to the infrastructure * Expectations from the current PoC trials and results so far: how manageable is the solution and what are the perspectives in terms of product development * Developing solutions with operators worldwide: what are their needs and how to work with them to develop an adapted solution * Great expectations: are PTT services the biggest revenue-generator new product of 2004 and beyond? Dr. Eduard Scheiterer VP Business Line Manager IMS/PoC Siemens Mobile Networks 15:00 PANEL DISCUSSION Positioning PTT in the wireless offer * Defining the uses of PTT for varied customer segments * PTT's position vis-à-vis other services: SMS, Mobile Instant Messaging * Advantages and disadvantages of bundling PTT services with other wireless services Asko Nuutinen, Technology Specialist, Elisa R&D Niclas Medman, Senior Marketing Manager, Ericsson Markku Savusalo, Director Push To Talk, Nokia Dr. Eduard Scheiterer, VP Business Line Manager IMS/PoC,Siemens Mobile Networks 15:40 Coffee 16:00 Is there a need for regulatory intervention in PTT deployment? * Overview of Push To Talk services in Israel * The regulator's approach to the implementation of PTT standard and services * Working with industry players and standards bodies to assess regulatory needs * The regulator's approach to PTT pricing Dr Assaf Cohen, Senior Deputy Director General for Economics Israel Ministry of Communications 17:10 Close of Day One DAY TWO Thursday 7 th October 2004 8:40 Registration and coffee 9:10 Opening remarks from the chair: Tony Cooper, Partner, Deloitte INTEGRATING PTT TO THE WIRELESS SERVICES OFFER TO ENSURE REVENUES 9:20 Global trends and regional markets: offering PTT services in varied markets * Take up of PTT in the US and lessons to be learnt from the original market * Opportunities in Europe: what adjustments need to be made to adapt to the European market * Asia-Pacific: the challenges of the Chinese and Indian markets * How to build partnerships with operators and services providers globally James Tagg, European Managing Director Fastmobile 10:00 Identifying the economic, technology and market requirements to develop PTT services * Building partnerships with solutions providers to enable PTT functionality on GPRS/3G wireless devices and networks * Market shape and consumer behaviour aspects to take into account when devising and implementing a strategy to deploy PTT services * Strategies to maximise take off of PTT services? * How is PTT expected to be used and what revenues can it generate? Operator to be confirmed 10:40 Strategic choices in deploying PoC to ensure ROI * Planning the investment for PoC infrastructure and services * Building partnerships along the value chain * Determining the services to offer: applications, features, devices, pricing strategies for varied customer segments * Marketing PTT services: integrating them in the operators' wireless offer, building consumer awareness, determining usage to attract varied user groups Charlie Henderson Director, PTT Over Cellular Group, EMEA Region Motorola 11:10 Coffee 11:30 PTT services to enhance the Total Communications experience * A Push-to-Talk Solution supporting full interoperability across all networks * Complementing existing operators offerings by adding PTT as a complementary service * How PTT adds value with presence location and a visual interface * Targeting varied user segments to increase revenue Mark Horne, Managing Director Mobile Tornado 12:00 PTT and the battle for the mobilised enterprise * Push-to-talk: Blue collar or white collar application * Incorporating packet voice into the enterprise network * Extending enterprise instant messaging to voice * The impact of latency on successful PTT * PTT and VoIP: extending enterprise voice to the mobile network Andrew Gilbert, General Manager EMEA Flarion 12:30 Lunch 13:40 Requirements to maximise speed of take off for PTT services * Ensuring quality and usability to provide end-user satisfaction: QoS, call set up, latency * The role of the handset offer in take off of PTT: what is the current offer, what features are most likely to attract users to PTT * Determining the customer segments to target and providing an adapted service * Strategies to market PTT services to varied markets and segments * PTT in the future: market expectations, future technologies, new services and applications Wade Vesey, Chief Marketing Officer Sonim Technologies 14:20 Gaining and retaining customers by ensuring quality PTT network management * How can network management solutions help build customer confidence and ensure growth: monitoring, troubleshooting and call-quality testing of SIP-based P2T services * Helping operators provide best quality services: devising marketing and customer retention strategies with operators * Targeting potential consumer groups and varied uses for PTT: how to approach varied customer segments * Delivering applications to attract new customers: what aspects of PTT are attractive to what customers? Gopan Madathil, Director Strategic Marketing OSS Division Agilent Technologies 15:00 Coffee 15:15 Optimising the customer experience to provide quality PTT services * What do PTT users needs from their services and how to deliver it * The problems that can affect the customer experience and troubleshooting solutions: call setup time and latency * Delivering PTT functionality: - to Nextel's nationwide wireless network - to Verizon in their PTT service rolled out in 2003 Duncan Vardy, Head of Product Management Actix 15:45 Building Profitable and Effective Charging Models for Push-to-Talk * The options for charging for PTT and how these apply differently: - within different regions; - within prepaid; - within contract postpaid. * How PTT can be deployed with no upgrades with existing data billing and prepaid systems * What is needed to deliver the required session control, QoS, etc? Carol Politi, Vice President of Marketing and Co-Founder Megisto Systems 16:15 PANEL DISCUSSION: Marketing PTT services * Targeting potential consumer groups and varied uses for PTT * Combining PTT with multiple services: digital phone, text messaging, Internet access * What groups are more likely to be attracted and how to approach them: business, youth, leisure * Building strategic partnerships to offer advanced services * Efficient marketing strategies for rapid take off Charlie Henderson, Director, PoC Group, EMEA region, Motorola Gopan Madathil, Director Strategic Marketing OSS Division, Agilent Technologies James Tagg, European Managing Director, Fastmobile 16:45 Closing remarks by chairman Terms & Conditions NB - Due to high demand, we do not 'reserve' or 'hold' places - a request for an invoice to be raised will be treated as an official booking and will be subject to the cancellation policy as outlined below. Cancellations/substitutions and name changes: All bookings carry a 50% liability after the booking has been made, by post fax, email or web. There will be no refunds for cancellations received on or after one month before the start of the conference (e.g. cancellation on or after 20th January for a conference starting on 20th February). If you decide to cancel after this date the full invoice remains payable. Conference notes, which are available on the day, will be sent to you. Unfortunately we are not able to transfer places between conferences and executive briefings. However if you are unable to attend the event you may make a substitution/name change at any time as long as we are informed in writing by e-mail, fax or post. Name changes and substitutions must be from the same company and are not transferable between companies or countries. Indemnity: visiongain Ltd reserve the right to change the conference/executive briefing content, timing, speakers or venue without notice. The event may be postponed or cancelled due to acts of terrorism, war, extreme weather conditions, industrial action, acts of God or any event beyond the control of visiongain Ltd. If such a situation arises we will endeavour to reschedule the event. However, visiongain Ltd cannot be held responsible for any cost, damage or expenses, which may be incurred by the customer as a consequence of the event being postponed or cancelled. We therefore strongly advise all customers to take out insurance to cover the cost of the registration, travel and expenses. ------------------------------ From: Al Gillis Subject: Re: Coca-Cola Cans as Security Threat Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 19:34:14 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com John McHarry wrote in message news:telecom23.318.8@telecom-digest.org: > Momo wrote: >> I clipped this from comp.risks and thought it might be worth >> discussion. Mo >> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:48:23 -0400 >> From: "Dominey, Jack M, NEO" >> Subject: Coca-Cola Cans as Security Threat >> Following message forwarded by my boss. I wonder what they think of >> this at Coca Cola HQ? >> Subject: SCIF Security Advisory >> Security Managers: >> The Coca Cola Company has a summer game promotion running from 5/17 - >> 7/12/04 in all 50 states and the District of Columbia that has the >> capability to compromise classified information. > They will probably call in Col. Bat Guano. Good old Colonel Guano - "Peace is our Profession". He was always worried about his "precious bodily fluids" and how he withheld them from women! Years ago, as an Airman Last Class I recall seeing that movie in the Lackland AFB theatre. Being right in the middle of the nonsense we called Basic Training made it even more hilarious to us! Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:59:25 -0400 From: Jack Decker Subject: Re: Internet Phone Service For Every Home Not Far Off Pat, please conceal my e-mail address as always. On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 02:52:54 -0000, ellis@no.spam wrote: > In article , Matt Simpson > wrote: >> That's a crock. We are still a very long way from "Internet Phone >> Service For Every Home". Before that can happen, we need broadband in >> every home. And that's a long way off. My abilities at predicting the future are generally not very good at all, but I would just remind Mr. Simpson that ten years ago people were saying the same thing about Internet access in every home. No, we still don't have Internet access in EVERY home (but then, there are probably still a few homes without running water!) but no one would say the Internet is insignificant anymore. At the same time, I grant the point: Some technology writers definitely need to keep the hype in check. > The bigger crock is the claim that VoIP is somehow superior to circuit > switched service. The biggest "virtue" of VoIP is its ability to > circumvent regulations and that has nothing to do with technology. I had to respond to this snarky comment. The biggest virtue of VoIP in my book is that it provides what our government more or less said they wanted back in 1996, which is telephone service that doesn't use or depend upon the facilities of the ILEC (on the subscriber's end). When VoIP is provided via cable modem or other broadband service that doesn't use the phone company's wires and cables, that's exactly what it provides, and that's what scares the big phone companies. Because, finally, customers are discovering ways to cut them out of the loop entirely. I mean, if you think about it, for years the phone companies pretty much had everyone over a barrel. If you really wanted to be a fully functioning member of society, especially starting in about the 1950's, you were expected to have a phone (I would submit that the same may nearly be true today with regard to Internet access). You still need a way to communicate with others, but for the first time in about half a century you can be without service from a traditional phone company and not be something of a social outcast. You can do that by using either a wireless phone, or a VoIP service in lieu of a standard phone line. The regulations in question probably never should have existed in the first place, because they set up the situation where phone companies think it is their God-given right to gouge the public, even to the point that they look upon fines as just a cost of doing business. So I would say that what is really happening is that VoIP is causing the old system of regulations to be examined and debated. If you are a traditional phone company, or have stock in one, you probably won't like that much, because those regulations have helped you make money and impede competition (in fact, if you're a big phone company, chances are your lawyers helped write some of those regulations). Furthermore, no VoIP company could actually "circumvent" regulations and get away with it for long -- that implies that they are doing something illegal. To be accurate, you should say that they are operating in a "grey area" where either the current regulations don't apply, or there is some doubt as to whether the regulations apply (and it will be up to the courts and the regulators to decide). Telecommunications law is very complex, and sometimes it's not so cut-and-dried what you can and cannot do. In such cases, some businesses will choose to risk getting slapped down by the courts, but hope that the courts will find in their favor. To make an analogy, it's like putting new paneling in your living room. Does your local city or township require that you get a building permit before doing so? Maybe yes, maybe no. Some people will check the regulations, decide they are vague, and do the job without getting the permit. Some will decide that they don't care; they'll do the job without the permit because the permit might not be required, but even if it is, they know there's only a very small chance they will ever be caught and fined. A few will march right down to city hall and request and pay for a permit, and then b*tch and moan and get on their moral high horse when they find out that a neighbor did a small remodeling job without a permit (IF they somehow find that out). A business has to be more careful what they do than a homeowner, because any disgruntled employee might blow the whistle (a few companies never seem to catch onto that fact until it's too late). So I would say that it's very unlikely that every VoIP company out there is circumventing regulations. Certainly, the major phone companies would like to put that spin on it (to buy them additional time to prepare their own VoIP offerings) but the VoIP companies would say that those regulations don't apply to them, thus they aren't circumventing anything. If a court later decides that the regulations do apply (and that ruling sticks through the appeal process) then the VoIP companies will have to deal with it. Personally, I hope it's the regulations that go away -- at least those that add all those extra charges to traditional phone bills. The Universal Service Charge particularly irks me -- this is just corporate welfare for second-tier telephone companies. Why should the ratepayers at Verizon or SBC have to pay extra so that the stockholders of CenturyTel or Frontier or other so-called "rural" companies get higher returns? ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Software Has Some Seeing Red / Harvard Grad Gains Overnight Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:07:00 -0700 From: Linc Madison Reply-To: lincmad@suespammers.org Organization: California resident; nospam; no unsolicited e-mail allowed In article , Monty Solomon wrote: > DidTheyReadIt allows users to track the e-mails they send, alerting > them when a message is opened by its recipient -- and even reporting > on how long the recipient looked at it, and offering a rough > geographical guess about where he is located. The service is either > subtle or surreptitious, depending on your point of view. It's nearly > impossible to tell that an e-mail you've received is being tracked by > DidTheyReadIt. There's a gaping flaw in the business model. Very simply put, any e-mail client that cooperates with DidTheyReadIt is also vulnerable to all sorts of spam-tracking and viruses. There's nothing that DidTheyReadIt uses, that people with far worse intentions can't exploit. My e-mail client -- and the e-mail client of anyone with a lick of sense -- asks my permission before loading any content from the Internet. That includes tracking information. (I also make sure that my e-mail client will not auto-execute scripts or other content included with the e-mail message itself.) An e-mail client that automatically loads graphics from some unknown web site is an open invitation to mischief. And that's before we even get to the issue that many admins are null-routing DidTheyReadIt's servers as a matter of policy. Linc Madison * San Francisco, California * lincmad@suespammers.org * primary e-mail: Telecom at LincMad dot com All U.S. and California anti-spam laws apply, incl. CA BPC 17538.45(c) This text constitutes actual notice as required in BPC 17538.45(f)(3). DO NOT SEND UNSOLICITED E-MAIL TO THIS ADDRESS. You have been warned. ------------------------------ From: Steven J Sobol Subject: Re: Comment re Norvergence and Another re Telecom Digest Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:23:36 -0500 sin nombre wrote: > Re Norvergence: If they wrote NSF checks to employees, what do you > suppose the odds are that they also wrote NSF checks for payroll tax > deposits? I think this company will be providing work for many > attorneys for many months, if not years. > Re Telecom Digest: I've just read a post on the Norvergence topic > which had little content other than to flame another poster. Pat, I > trust your judgement; but that one getting through came as a surprise. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Well sometimes I let those through > because I want to give them enough rope to hang themselves with. Steve > has been posting here for many years, and I trust his postings. Not > necessarily so with his current antagonist. PAT] Won't happen again. I've said my peace, I apologize if I annoyed anyone, and it won't happen again. I was trying to stick to providing facts, and a few insults crept into that last post. JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. ------------------------------ From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa Hancock) Subject: Re: Norvergence Offics Raided by FBI Date: 6 Jul 2004 06:58:45 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com TELECOM Digest Editor noted in response to hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa Hancock): > Is Qwest now out of business with some other telco running phone > service in the New Jersey area? I misread the news notice. Apparently some of Qwest's wireless customers were sold, see the following from the Qwest website. http://www.qwest.com/about/media/pressroom/1,1720,1558_current,00.html I couldn't find any news articles about Norvergence. However, I did see a commercial site (login required) that says it has info: (I did not log on to it). http://www.telecomagent.org/norvergence.htm ------------------------------ From: n-line@juno.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 14:13:16 GMT Subject: Norvergence - How Do I Get Out Well if all is true then Norvergence is out of business. One thing hasn't been addressed though ... what are the existing customers supposed to do now? We have signed lease agreements with banks for equipment that won't work when Quest turns off the lines again. How do we get out of those? Anyone have any ideas?? [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I suggest simply ignoring those fraud- ulent contracts the banks are holding. FREEZE ALL TELECOM PAYMENTS IMMEDIATLY. If the bank wants to sue, that's okay. They *should* be suing the remains of Norvergence, since Norvergence got the money illegally, through trickery and fraud. Of course the bank will choose to pick on the weaker party (yourself) because they assume they can twist your arm easier. You'll hear threats about how you will get sued, how your company credit will be ruined, etc, but pay no attention. The bank knows it will be almost futile to try and sue Novergence, so they will work on you instead if you let them, and sadly, many telecom managers, company executives will be bullied into compliance with the bank's demands for payment, etc. If the bank *does* choose to sue you (not at all certain, IMO) then your response should be to countersue the bank for harassment and for being a party to the same fraud as Norvergence. The bank after all *did* facilitate the fraud by paying Norvergence money, and they knew or should have known that Norvergence had a worthless scheme going on. The bank is equally (or more so) able to investigate the collateral being put up for the money the bank advanced to Norvergence, the 'collateral' in this case being the promises of satisfied customers able and willing to pay. If you recall, we had that one message in the Digest several months ago from the lady who said she worked for the bank (which had been approached by Norvergence to handle their paper) and she was investigating if the bank should get involved or not. Now myself, being sort of weary about lawsuits and Norvergence's eagnerness to file same, I just printed her message here and said nothing, or maybe just some generic, bland response, I do not remember. In any event, the bank could have chosen to investigate if they wished, prior to advancing money to Norvergence, or handing the company's credit paper. That's not your problem. You were deceived by a smooth talking salesman. Just ignore those invoices and let the bank deal with it as they must. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Jay Hennigan Organization: Disgruntled Postal Workers Against Gun Control Subject: Re: General Observation re: Norvergence Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:39:51 -0700 On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 09:31:35 -0700, Mark Crispin wrote: > One of the leading earmarks of a scam is an organization that > threatens litigation against ex-employees, disgruntled customers, > etc. that publishes unfavorable information about the organization. > Scams always have sleazy lawyers on the payroll whose sole function is > to send threatening letters and at times file frivolous lawsuits. > Reputable companies do not try to silence their critics. Reputable > companies do not demand that unfavorable opinions about that company > be quashed. Heh. See: http://www.2600.com/news/view/article/322 ------------------------------ From: shinecorp1@aol.com (Alessandra Di Maggio) Subject: Norvergence : Mob Affiliations? Date: 6 Jul 2004 10:25:54 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com As you all know, I am a former employee of Norvergence. I worked there until early 2004. I saw right through them when I was hired, but I really needed to make some quick cash ... and did ( I was taking home over $7,000 a month- clean) . They (owners and management) were sleazy and unprofessional and I hated their guts ... I would never defend them under any circumstance ... but one thing I do want to clarify ... I have read on certain postings that Norvergence has ties with the Italian-American mob. I can absolutely assure everyone that there is nothing further from the truth. The Italian mob were very much made aware of Norvergence and of it's scamming operations ... but they had no desire to get involved. They knew the company was going to get busted by the Feds, sooner or later, and thus they decided not to take a "piece of the action". They wanted nothing to do with the company. How do I know this? This is first hand information. Believe it or not, the mob is smart, won't take stupid risks or associate with individuals who's fate is sealed. Salzano and Company are a bunch of money hungry corrupt capitalists. There is a very distinct difference. ------------------------------ From: Jay Hennigan Organization: Disgruntled Postal Workers Against Gun Control Subject: Message Waiting Light Compatible IAD or Channel Bank? Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:41:00 -0700 I'm looking for a device to interface with an IP-based PBX (Asterisk) that will connect to analog phones in a hotel/motel environment with message-waiting lights. These are neon lamps that are illuminated by increasing the on-hook voltage from a nominal 48 volts to 90 volts. Ideally an IAD that connects via ethernet and includes FXS interfaces, or a channel bank that I can use with a PRI interface to the asterisk box would be preferred. Has anyone done this, or can you suggest a vendor? Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 WB6RDV NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/ ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and other forums. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. 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End of TELECOM Digest V23 #319 ******************************