From editor@telecom-digest.org Thu Jul 1 00:06:27 2004 Received: (from ptownson@localhost) by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p3/8.11.3) id i6146Re16578; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:06:27 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <200407010406.i6146Re16578@massis.lcs.mit.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: massis.lcs.mit.edu: ptownson set sender to editor@telecom-digest.org using -f To: ptownson Approved: patsnewlist Subject: TELECOM Digest V23 #310 TELECOM Digest Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:07:00 EDT Volume 23 : Issue 310 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson NYS Attorney General vs. AT&T Decent Not Great, Settlement (Danny Burstein) Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? (Barry Margolin) Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? (T. Sean Weintz) Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? (DevilsPGD) Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? (Keith) Re: Pizza; Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? (Dorsey) Re: Pizza; Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? (Gordon) Re: Pizza; Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? (Justin) Re: Pizza; Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? (Keith) Re: Pizza; Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? (Tech) Internet Access With a 800 Number (Kevin) What Happens to Expired Wireless Numbers (internist) Re: Popular Camera Cellphones Raise Privacy Concerns Schools (L. Hancock) For Sale: Telrad 8_16 Key bx (Earl Mon) Want to Buy: Used Cell Phones (Jerome Haden) Inet Domain Name, Help. (Ron Reaugh) Keyboard For Mobile and Palmtop Using Handwriting (chennakeshava_ramesh) Indian Telemarketing Shop Service-Monitoring Line? (John R. Covert) All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Danny Burstein Subject: NYS Attorney General vs. AT&T Decent, not Great, Settlement Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:55:56 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC "Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced a settlement that requires the state's leading long distance telephone company to issue refunds and credits to as many as 311,000 New Yorkers to correct improper billings. "As part of the settlement, AT&T Communications of New York will also reform its billing procedures, provide consumers with additional information on telephone services and pay $400,000 in penalties and costs." [snip] "The investigation began in January, after the Attorney General's office received hundreds of complaints from consumers who were billed for long distance telephone service that they neither requested nor used." [ snippety snip ] http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/jun/jun29a_04.html - I'm glad he forced them to proactively make all the refunds, but still disturbed that they've gotten no punishment ($400k is nothing) for, to quote Al Franken, LYING when they sent out bills. And there's no reimbursement to the customers who had to waste huge amounts of their time in arguing. - As I've said before, if you or I sent out hundreds of thousands of fake bills (and cheerfully cashed the 10 percent or so that came back with checks) we'd be guests over at Camp Fed. danny " was one of the people who wrote to his office " burstein _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] ------------------------------ From: Barry Margolin Subject: Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? Organization: Looking for work Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:40:09 -0400 In article , johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) wrote: > Nextel's walkie-talkie feature is still very popular, but not among > the trendy crowd. I wonder if this is due to the cancellation of Baywatch. They had lots of product placement in the last year or two of that show -- the lifeguards would use "Nextel" as a verb to refer to their use of the walkie-talkies to contact each other on the beach. Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:54:00 -0400 From: T. Sean Weintz Subject: Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? Organization: VISI.com TELEECOM Digest Editor noted in response to Proprclr: > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Am I correct that the 'walkie-talkie > two way feature' was not a Walkie-Talkie in the 'traditional' sense of > using a two-way radio as such (RF or radio frequency) signals but was > actually a speed dial type thing for one number on the cell phone > which in addition to being speed dialed was put on a handsfree type > 'loudspeaker' type thing? How did that Nextel feature actually work? PAT] No. It does not work that way. It actually, from what I can see, seems to use some variation an instant messaging protocol or something similar -- all Nextel phones I have seen seem in fact to be IP phones. I know mine is. There is a different number than the phone number associated with the walkie talkie feature. Forget exactly what Nextel calls it. ------------------------------ From: DevilsPGD Subject: Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? Reply-To: bond-jamesbond@crazyhat.net Organization: EasyNews, UseNet made Easy! Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:43:03 GMT In message Joseph wrote: > [Personally, I find any kind of PTT service whether it's Nextel's or > the competition extremely annoying. It's bad enough with people who > do not know how to use a regular cell phone who insist on increasing > their speaking volume threefold. All the squawks and beeps with > direct connect phones is at best annoying.] This is a idiot at the controls, you can hit the "speaker" button and it uses the earpiece instead, beeps and all. Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk? ------------------------------ From: Keith Subject: Re: What Happened to the "2 Way" Craze? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:55:32 -0400 Gary/Pat: >> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Am I correct that the 'walkie-talkie two >> way feature' was not a Walkie-Talkie in the 'traditional' sense of using >> a two-way radio as such (RF or radio frequency) signals but was actually >> a speed dial type thing for one number on the cell phone which in >> addition to being speed dialed was put on a handsfree type 'loudspeaker' >> type thing? How did that Nextel feature actually work? PAT] > Once the call is dialed it appears much like a radio, but of course > the traffic is not direct, it's sent to Nextel and back out. But it > only occupies a channel when you transmit, so it's very efficient > use of the channel space, and very practical when there is 'work' > going on and you are only talking a small percentage of the time. This is absolutely true MOST of the time. Nextel has implemented something which I witnessed first hand a couple years ago. In the event you are close by (determined by the cell site), the tower instructs the radios to switch to a simplex radio frequency and then the two phones DO communicate directly via RF. This is done so that you don't tie up a channel unnecessarily. How do I know this? I saw two people communicate within the same room (one up an escalator, one below) using Nextel's phones. My frequency counter (which was strapped to my belt) didn't register normal cell frequencies when they talked, but frequencies in the business band neighborhood of 450mhz. I tuned my handheld radio to the frequency, and heard them talking. As soon as I heard the conversation, I of course realized this was illegal, and tuned away, of course. I'm not sure if its ONLY certain phones, or only certain areas(this was NYC), etc. Keith ------------------------------ From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) Subject: Re: Pizza ... Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? Date: 29 Jun 2004 15:44:08 -0400 Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000) JV wrote: > Is there a way I can tell if a call came from a land line, cell phone, > or pay phone? > .... Through data received from CallerID? No. > .... Through data received via SS7? Yes. > .... How big/$$$ a phone system would be needed to accomplish this? Not all that huge a system. A lot of small PBXes will let you do it. But, just having a CD-ROM phone database and using it to look the address up each time you get a call will get you 80% of the way there. I believe that when Pizza Hut first set their system up, they were taking caller-id data and using a combined database consisting of both a CD-ROM phone database and a database of customers and using that. If someone was not listed, the order entry folks would request name and address and put it into the database. This is handy because in addition the database can contain information about previous orders. If someone is suddenly ordering small pizzas when they used to order larges, you could offer them a particular promotion, for example. If someone is known to be a bad customer, with a history of problems, the order entry folks will know it. --scott "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:54:55 -0500 From: Gordon S. Hlavenka Reply-To: nospam@crashelex.com Organization: Crash Electronics Subject: Re: Pizza ... Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? JV wrote: > My ultimate objective is to determine if the phone call is from a > pay phone, cell phone, or land phone to help ensure the safety of > the drivers. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Unfortunatly there is no way to do it > within the reasonable limitations of what a pizza restaurant operator > would want invest in a phone system. http://www.whitepages.com has a reverse directory that tells you if a number is a cellphone. I'm not sure how it handles payphones, unlisted, non-pub, etc. But it's a start. Perhaps you could hire a local hacker-type to write a screen-scraper that checks numbers at Whitepages.com? Or, do it the "right" way and see if the Whitepages people have an API you can write to. The first method is kludgy but cheap, the second is more elegant but may cost you a few licensing $$ ... Gordon S. Hlavenka http://www.crashelectronics.com "If we imagined he could _find_ the car, we could pretend it might be fixed." - Calvin ------------------------------ From: a_user2000@yahoo.com (Justin Time) Subject: Re: Pizza ... Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? Date: 30 Jun 2004 05:24:45 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com cyberpizzaguy@hotmail.com (JV) wrote in message news:: > Ok, I did say Pizza to get your attention, but this question is > related to Pizza. Just about everyone orders pizza for delivery ... > Thanks! > Cyberpizzaguy > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Unfortunatly there is no way to do it > within the reasonable limitations of what a pizza restaurant operator > would want invest in a phone system. What you can do, and seems to > work pretty well, but not perfectly, is begin to develop your own data > base using caller ID, your computer-cash register system, etc. A call > rings in and *your* database puts up certain details about the customer > such as address, etc. Much of that data is compiled as you go along > of course. In the early days of your database, you also rely heavily > on criss-cross directories, telephone books, etc. Many times, a > cellular phone will give the caller's 'name' as 'Wireless Caller' or > a payphone may give the name of the phone's owner as customer. And > don't hesitate to wait a couple minutes and dial back the number > because 'the clerk who took your order may have gotten it wrong and > I wanted to double check, etc'. It never hurts also to have your > delivery person drop his money after each order rather than accumulate > a lot of it in the course of the evening, **and publicize this fact > with customers**, i.e. 'how much change will the delivery man need to > bring with him; he never carries any extra money." Oh, and any time > a call comes in with ID blocked have the phone company turn on > 'privacy manager' so the call never even reaches you unless the person > dials back with the ID unblocked. PAT] Pat, All your responses are spot on -- except the last one. I sometimes use my cell phone to order things to be delivered and my cell has been configured since day one as "private." The not sending of my telephone number is a business choice for me. I am a consultant with a major city as my chief client. I give my cell phone number to only select people as 99 per cent of my business calls are directed to my desk phone where I have voice mail when I am out. The decision not to give out my cell phone number is based on something you often speak out on, common courtesy. Because my cell phone number is not widely known, when I am in meetings with my clients, they know if it goes off, it is probably pretty important. But if my cell phone number were widely known and it went off, then I am dismissed as someone who doesn't have the courtesy to give the proper amount of attention to my client as they feel they deserve with the billing rates they pay. And yes, there is such a thing as silent mode, but you still take the phone out to look and see if the caller deserves immediate attention. So, telling a business to reject private or unidentified calls affects them directly -- at the cash register. If I called my local pizza delivery place and they blocked my call, then I would just find another place to do business. Rodgers Platt [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Just as you turn on ID blocking on a case by case basis using *67 (most places), you can turn off blocking on a case by case basis also, usually with *87 (?) or sometimes by using *67 again for that call. Try to be reasonable with those guys, can't you? PAT] ------------------------------ From: Keith Subject: Re: Pizza ... Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:11:11 -0400 PAT Wrote : > Oh, and any time a call comes in with ID blocked have the phone > company turn on 'privacy manager' so the call never even reaches you > unless the person dials back with the ID unblocked. PAT] Ummm. If I call a pizza shop from my blocked cell phone, like I did last Friday, and they reject my call, I'm calling a different pizza place. Pizza delivery places have gotten by just fine over how many years without CallerID? It's funny how both cell phone companies and regular phone companies are willing to give up your privacy, by default, automatically -- in turn for additional revenue for these add on services. Why is the default to have your number displayed? Why can't this be an opt-in program? (rhetorical question, of course) All my telephones lines have permanent line-blocking enabled. Getting to the OP's question: If the customer sets up an 800 number, is it possible for the telco to deliver ANI information via CallerID? 800 numbers are relatively inexpensive, so this might work. BTW, Pizza Hut for a long time had one of the most comprehensive reverse-lookup phone number databases in the world. They correlated information from a number of public sources, past customer calls, etc. My understanding was that they had a master database at some central location where they stored nationwide records. Keith [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The reason pizza delivery places got along fine without caller ID for many years is the same reason police got along fine without 911 for many years; they had to; there were no other options. That, and the fact that telco essentially re-invented the phone network in the late 1960's (with ESS, and its sophistication) which was necessitated in large part by how severely they were getting ripped off by an increasingly sophisticated public. Police grew weary off going somewhere on faith, based on bogus calls from the public (this was especially true of the Fire Department) and as soon as the same sophisticated public began to discover that pizza delivery men working in 'bad' neighborhoods were also easy pickings then things like Caller ID became good tools to use. And yes, a toll free 800 number is relatively inexpensive to use these days and 'identification-avoidance' is almost impossible to avoid. Not totally, but a mere *67 won't do it. PAT] ------------------------------ From: SELLCOM Tech support Subject: Re: Pizza ... Can I Tell a Cell or Pay Phone Call From CallerID info? Organization: www.sellcom.com Reply-To: support@sellcom.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:24:39 GMT cyberpizzaguy@hotmail.com (JV) posted on that vast internet thingie: > Ok, I did say Pizza to get your attention, but this question is > related to Pizza. Just about everyone orders pizza for delivery ... > right? Well on our side, getting pizza orders over the phone is big > business. Problem is that sometimes crooks with ill intentions try to > lure pizza drivers in to rob them, or worse. Many times they use a > pay phone, and the prevelance of cell phones makes this a growing > problem for me. My ultimate objective is to determine if the phone > call is from a pay phone, cell phone, or land phone to help ensure the > safety of the drivers. A good first step might be to not insist that your drivers be unarmed, especially if you live in a concealed carry state. If the criminals were not assured of easy unarmed marks, they might not have such a preference for the pizza man. We ordered our last pizza from a website. Steve at SELLCOM http://www.sellcom.com Discount multihandset cordless phones by Siemens, AT&T, Panasonic, Motorola Vtech 5.8Ghz; TMC ET4000 4line Epic phone, OnHoldPlus, Beamer, Watchguard! Brick wall "non MOV" surge protection. Mini-Splitter log splitter! If you sit at a desk www.ergochair.biz you owe it to yourself. ------------------------------ From: vincent.mertens@tiscali.be (Kevin) Subject: Internet Access With a 800 Number Date: 29 Jun 2004 06:28:54 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Info on http://www.webwizzard.nl/linkspel/?r=1814 [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Not only are robberies of pizza delivery guys bad news; so is spam and virii. What would happen to the amount of spam if every ISP started using 800 numbers on their dialups and matching those logs with their other traffic logs, so they could hammer on the !absolute! senders of that crap. After all it came from YOUR account when YOU were on line to us, etc. The person could, I suppose, insist he had not been at the computer at that time, it must have been a virus-bot using my computer, etc. PAT] ------------------------------ From: internist9@yahoo.com (internist) Subject: What Happens to Expired Wireless Numbers Date: 29 Jun 2004 08:29:15 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com I was just curious to know what happens to the phone numbers once a wireless plan expires or a customer terminates the contract. Are those assigned to some other customers later? And most importantly how much time does it take? This information will be useful to me as number portability act doesn't work with the same carrier. If my plan with Sprint expires and I have bought phones and numbers from another private company for the same carrier (needs new activation); can I let the current numbers expire and then maybe request them back? [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Its like any other telco. If there is a number crunch, then they use the same numbers faster. But most carriers are happy to accomodate their *good* customers with number changes whenever possible. If you go to Sprint and say "I will sign this new contract for two years with you *if and only if* you will give me my old number (from earlier contract, etc)" I cannot imagine they would not accomodate you. PAT] ------------------------------ From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) Subject: Re: Popular Camera Cellphones Raise Privacy Concerns in Vt. Schools Date: 29 Jun 2004 12:16:12 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Monty Solomon wrote > This past year, at least two students were disciplined for using the > devices to take pictures of fellow students without permission. The > school board is expected to approve tomorrow a policy clarifying that > such behavior is forbidden. A job testing center bans all cellphones from the test rooms because they have been used to take pictures of the exams. An episode on a current TV show dealt with a girl's embarassment when other girls took her picture in the locker room and shared it. I expect there will be more problems with this since lots of kids have picture cellphones and would love to catch their classmates in embarassing moments. Of course, I see no reason for kids to have cellphones while in school, and lots of reasons why they shouldn't. If a kid has to have a phone for after school use, he/she should put it away at the start of the day and not access it until the end of the day. (If a parent has a true emergency and needs to contact their kid -- which is very rare -- they can call the school office as was done in the past.) When I was in public school there were pay phones, but students were not allowed to use them without permission from the school, e.g., a urgent situation. I expect to see more restrictions on cell phone usage, from the disturbance making and receiving calls creates as well as privacy/dignity violations from taking secret pictures. I suspect many buildings will not allow cellphones to be brought into them for those reasons. [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Actually, camera cell phones are still relatively new and the pictures they take (and deliver elsewhere) are extremely crappy, IMO. Such tiny little pictures, grainy and poorly focused, etc. I've seen the ones over at the local Radio Shack store and also the Cingular Wireless store here. I cannot imagine spending money to get one presently. Maybe a lot of kids have money to burn on that sort of thing. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: For Sale: Telrad 8_16 Key bx From: Earl mon Organization: Comcast Online Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:34:14 GMT FS: Telrad 8_16 key bx Please review my Ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11908&item= 5706508262&rd=1 or item number: 5706508262 Thanks. ------------------------------ From: Jerome Haden Subject: WTB: Used Cell Phones Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:53:00 -0500 We have numerous of our used computer customers asking us for new or refurbished cell phones. We currently have a need for 5,000++ Treo 180's or other similar models. We also have a customer looking for GSM gspr triband chips - or used phones to remove them from. Please send us your offers of: scrap cell phones used cell phones refurbished cell phones. All offers must be subject to physical inspection and samples must be available. Jerome Haden 504-454-7143 V.P. Sales & Marketing Computer Discounters Wholesale, Inc Computers Of Mexico 5416 Veterans Highway Metairie, LA. 70003 USA jerome@computersofmexico.com Chat: Yahoo: computersofmexico AOL: computerno MSN: jerome@computersofmexico.com www.computersofmexico.com ------------------------------ From: Ron Reaugh Subject: Inet Domain Name, Help. Organization: AT&T Worldnet Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:40:43 GMT What exactly is a registerable Internet domain name and how does that relate to subdomains? For instance if one owns or is renting xyzabc.com then what exactly is jkl.xyzabc.com? I understand that the jkl is known as a subdomain. But is the complete entity jkl.xyzabc.com something that is independently registerable from xzyabc.com? OR if one owns xyzabc.com then does one own automatically all subdomains off xyzabc.com in Internet domain name space? I guess the question boils down to whether '.' is a special and non-registerable character below the TLD level and therefore the registerable domain name is that entity in the right most portion of the name including one and only one '.' which preceeds a valid TLD? ------------------------------ From: chennakeshava_ramesh@yahoo.co.in (chennakeshava_ramesh@yahoo.co.in) Subject: Keyboard For Mobile and Palmtop Using Handwriting Date: 30 Jun 2004 06:41:25 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Hi friends, I am developing models for keyboards for mobiles which can be used with palmtops also. I had posted early regarding the paper. But the problem was how to use it was not clear. So I have just added a small email video cliping in the form of exe file, which show the way the data can be entered into the mobile using handwriting. After seeing it is easy to understand the paper which I presented. I am working on developing the grid structure for the japanese characters and any body interested in developing such keyboards can join the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/keyboarddevelopment which I have recently started to carry on research in this field. The .exe is present in zip format in my site www.hcr.freewebspace.com if unable to download you can download in the file section of the Yahoo group keyboarddevelopment at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/keyboarddevelopment If any problems or queries please mail me back at chennakeshava.ramesh@wipro.com or chennakeshava_ramesh@yahoo.co.in, so that I can correct it. Thanks, Regards, RAMESH (same as ramesh_jun24) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:28:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John R. Covert Subject: Indian Telemarketing Shop Service-Monitoring Line? There's an interesting number on the caller-id of my fax line. The call disconnected with no fax received. (866) 383-0986 If you call it back, you get a recording with a distinctive Indian accent saying, "Please dial the extension number which you want to monitor." Hmmmmm. /john ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and other forums. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. 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End of TELECOM Digest V23 #310 ******************************