To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Subject: Octothorpe source Date: 19 Nov 88 15:25:08 PST (Sat) From: ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term OCTOTHORPE. An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen references to it in some Bell docs, I have even seen a news clipping years ago that mentioned it. My problem is that every now and again, some smart Alec asks me where it comes from. I have even been accused of making it up. No dictionary I have seen has ever given me a definition. Yes I have looked it up in the 24 Volume Oxford English Dictionary. I have checked the encyc Brit and alleged Telecommunications Dictionaries. I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the word has some roots. There is a good term paper here for someone. Yours Julian Macassey -- Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 ------------------------------ To: comp-dcom-telecom@ncar.ucar.edu From: aem@ibiza.Miami.Edu (a.e.mossberg) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 21 Nov 88 14:52:27 GMT In , wrote: > An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to >as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number >symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen >references to it in some Bell docs, I have even seen a news >clipping years ago that mentioned it. Indeed, that's the same place I learned the term, but usually have to revert to 'number sign' or 'pound sign'. > My problem is that every now and again, some smart Alec asks >me where it comes from. I have even been accused of making it >up. No dictionary I have seen has ever given me a definition. Yep, same here. I've never been able to find it in a dictionary, nor have I been able to find the original reference from where I learned it. I was beginning to think I made it up in some frenzied nightmare. Perhaps Bell invented it, and then changed their collective mind. aem a.e.mossberg - aem@mthvax.miami.edu - aem@mthvax.span (3.91) Man is here for the sake of other men. - Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 88 09:19:28 PST From: HECTOR MYERSTON Subject: Octothorpe source To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu Cc: myerston@KL.SRI.COM All my Bell System references call # The Number Sign (or Pound). The only times I see it called an Octothrope is in Northern Telecom Inc publications talking about Digipulse Dialing, "their name" for DTMF. The Japanese routinely call it a "Sharp". Obscure to me, logical to the musically inclined. +HECTOR+ ------- To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: westmark!dave@rutgers.edu (Dave Levenson) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 24 Nov 88 00:52:41 GMT In article ,(julian macassey) writes: > > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. ... > I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the > word has some roots. # # # # ####### # # ####### # # # # Can't you see the eight beams here? -- Dave Levenson Westmark, Inc. The Man in the Mooney Warren, NJ USA {rutgers | att}!westmark!dave TELECOM Digest Tue, 29 Nov 88 0:23:56 EST Volume 8 : Issue 187 Today's Topics: Octothorpe re: Octothorpe source Re: Octothorpe source Cordless Phone Recommendations Re: Building your own phone projects off-hook indicator Converting T1 from #5 ESS to Analog [Moderator's note: It has been a crazy couple of weeks. Jon Solomon has experimented diligently with various versions of sendmail in an effort to see to it that each of you receive one copy -- and one copy only -- of the Digest. Our mailing list was so large the bu-cs send mail apparatus belched everytime I logged on. We broke the large list down into many smaller parts. Then, the sun.arpa > sun.com gateway apparently was out of service for awhile. At least, we audited some copies going to Portal and found they had sat in the gateway que for two days at a time. Some machines are still disconnected from the net as a result of the worm experience, and the end result of all this has been -- I'm almost ashamed to say -- extremely poor and unreliable delivery of the Digest since issue 180 until now. We received conflicting reports of delivery on some issues (like 186), with Mailer-Daemon assuring us the copies had NOT been delivered, only to remail them and find some of you got THREE copies, etc. For any of you where FTP can be used to aquire missing issues, please use that method. FTP bu-cs.bu.edu and ls telecom-archives. Then look at the file called telecom-recent. If you cannot FTP, then let me know, and as time permits I will retransmit individual copies. We -- jsol and I -- keep thinking this long nightmare is almost over. A special program has been written to transmit the Digest beginning with this issue we hope will do the job. Patrick Townson] --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: 8b@cup.portal.com To: telecom-request@xx.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Octothorpe Date: Sat, 26-Nov-88 09:52:20 PST But...a # doesn't have eight beams...only 4...two really if you define beam as being horizontal...just call it a pound sign... which, I suppose, refers to some typewriter which have the British pound sign over the 3...I just call it the number sign...I've also heard it referred to as a ticktacktoe... -8b@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ From: minow%thundr.DEC@decwrl.dec.com (Repent! Godot is coming soon! Repent!) Date: 28 Nov 88 14:17 To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu, MINOW%thundr.DEC@decwrl.dec.com Subject: re: Octothorpe source According to legend, "octothorpe" is a name that the Bell people made up for the # on the telephone keypad. I suspect that they couldn't agree as to whether it was a "pound sign", "sharp", or "number sign" and eventually compromised (making everyone equally miserable). Martin Minow minow%thundr.dec@decwrl.dec.com [Moderator's question: I am wondering if our correspondent is related to Newton Minow, well known FCC executive. Just curious. P. Townson] ------------------------------ To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edu From: Henry Troup Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 22 Nov 88 15:57:48 GMT In article ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term >OCTOTHORPE. > >Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 I believe AT&T named the little beastie. Anyone at AT&T wanted to claim responsibility? Henry Troup utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!hwt%bnr-public | BNR is not Bell-Northern Reseach hwt@bnr (BITNET/NETNORTH) | responsible for Ottawa, Canada (613) 765-2337 (Voice) | my opinions From telecom@bu-cs.BU.EDU Thu Dec 1 21:43:21 1988 Received: by bu-cs.BU.EDU (4.0/4.7) id AA07601; Thu, 1 Dec 88 21:43:21 EST Message-Id: <8812020243.AA07601@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 88 21:05:28 EST From: The Moderator Reply-To: TELECOM@bu-cs.BU.EDU Subject: TELECOM Digest V8 #190 To: TELECOM@bu-cs.bu.edu TELECOM Digest Thu, 1 Dec 88 21:05:28 EST Volume 8 : Issue 190 Today's Topics: All You Ever Wanted To Know About Octothorpes [Moderator's Note: This is a just-for-fun special issue of the Digest with a random sampling of the mail received pertaining to your favorite touch-pad key and mine, the lowly octothorpe, or #. As is our custom, we have even provided a rebuttal message from someone who says the # is not known as an octothorpe at all.... Now can we get this out of our systems once and for all please? Let's call it quits on the subject of #, by whatever name. P. Townson] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larryl@nvuxr.UUCP (L Lang) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 22 Nov 88 15:36:53 GMT Organization: Bell Communications Research Lines: 24 In article , ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term > OCTOTHORPE. > > An octothorpe is an # , which is what is usually referred to > as "the pound sign" or "the hash mark", sometimes as "the number > symbol". I know the correct term is octothorpe, I have seen > ... > I do know that Octo means eight and Thorpe means beam. So the > word has some roots. > ... > Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 When I count "thorpes" (the beams or lines), I only see four, two vertical and two horizontal. Perhaps it should be called the QUADROTHORPE. And does that make the * a TRITHORPE? Cheers, Larry Lang To: comp-dcom-telecom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU From: desnoyer@Apple.COM (Peter Desnoyers) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 30 Nov 88 23:20:40 GMT Just to provide another point of view: from CCITT recommendation E.161 (Arrangement of Figures, Letters and Symbols of Telephones and other Devices that can be used for Gaining Access to a Telephone Network) as revised for the Blue Book: 3.2.2 Symbols ... [drawings, with angle between horiz. and vert. strokes, length of strokes, and length of protruding nubbies labelled alpha, b, and a respectively] in Europe alpha = 90 degrees with a/b = 0.08 (looks funny to a N.A.ican) in North America alpha = 80 deg. with a/b = 0.18 ... The symbol will be known as the square or the most commonly used equivalent term in other languages.* *... alternate term (e.g. "number sign") may be necessary... I suppose it's useful to have a translatable term. That approach worked for "star", but it seems to have failed here. Does anyone refer to '#' as a "square"? Anywhere? Enquiring minds want to know... Peter Desnoyers To: telecom@bu-cs.bu.edurom: erik@Morgan.COM (Erik T. Mueller) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 1 Dec 88 19:28:06 GMT The term "octothorpe" appears in issues of the journal -Telesis- from the mid to late 1970's published by Bell Northern Research. (Sorry, I don't have the actual issue numbers handy right now...) I don't know its origin, but vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was a Canadian telephony term. As far as I know, the term is/was never used by AT&T. -Erik To: comp-dcom-telecom@decwrl.dec.com From: avsd!childers (Richard Childers) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 25 Nov 88 21:25:03 GMT In article ucla-an!bongo!julian@ee.UCLA.EDU (julian macassey) writes: > I am looking for an authoritative reference for the term >OCTOTHORPE. ... ( An octothorpe is an # ... ) Well, this isn't authoritative, it's intuitive, but I _think_ it refers to the symbol as used on a complex organ's key, for a particular mode. >Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo voice (213) 653-4495 -- richard -- * Any excuse will serve a tyrant. -- Aesop * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D * To: comp-dcom-telecom From: seeger@beach.cis.ufl.edu (F. L. Charles Seeger III) Subject: Re: Octothorpe source Date: 1 Dec 88 15:42:09 GMT In article MYERSTON@KL.SRI.COM (HECTOR MYERSTON) writes: | | All my Bell System references call # The Number Sign (or Pound). |The only times I see it called an Octothrope is in Northern Telecom Inc |publications talking about Digipulse Dialing, "their name" for DTMF. | The Japanese routinely call it a "Sharp". Obscure to me, logical |to the musically inclined. I usually refer to as "sharp", but may change to octothorpe -- I sometimes like to tilt at windmills. What are the names of the other ASCII special symbols? For instance, "&" is an ampersand and "*" an asterisk. Are there any fancy (preferrably single word) names for the others? I.e names not of the form "* [sign|mark|symbol]". Does anyone have a reference on these things, probably a typography reference? The terms that I use, about which I'm fairly confident: ~ tilde () [left|right|open|close] parenthesis [] [left|right|open|close] bracket {} [left|right|open|close] brace <> [left|right|open|close] carat ^ circumflex _ underscore . period , comma ; semi-colon : colon What about the following: ? ! @ $ % / \ | + = - ` ' " If I get responses by Email, I'll summarize in a couple of weeks. Also, feel free to suggest a more appropriate newsgroup. -- Charles Seeger 216 Larsen Hall Electrical Engineering University of Florida seeger@iec.ufl.edu Gainesville, FL 32611 [Moderator's inane comment: PUH-LEASE! write direct to Charlie on this; not to me. I do not give an iota what those things are called! And now, here is that rebuttal message...] To: comp-dcom-telecom@rutgers.edu From: ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) Subject: Re: Octothorpe Date: 1 Dec 88 22:15:50 GMT Nope, # is called pound because it is used as a symbol for pounds (weight). I really expect the brits would put the Pound Sterling where the $ is on a typewriter keyboards. -Ron [And there you have it. All the questions you were embarrassed to ask your Mother Company all nicely summarized for you by the Octothorpe Digest people in simple, easy to read format you would not be reluctant to share with your own children when they are old enough to ask the name of that 'funny looking key below the nine.' In issue 191, distributed early Friday morning, news of the increase in network access fees which took effect 12-1-88, and the correspondending decrease in rates by AT&T, Sprint, and MCI.] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest *********************