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TELECOM Digest     Tue, 28 Jun 2005 00:27:00 EDT    Volume 24 : Issue 297

Inside This Issue:                             Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Film, Music Companies Hail Grokster Ruling (Lisa Minter)
    Sony Eyes Grokster Despite the Court Ruling (Lisa Minter)
    Ex-Enron Internet Chief Describes Losing Power (Lisa Minter)
    50 Year Unisys Employee Retires (Lisa Hancock)
    G3 for Dialup Users! (Patrick Townson)
    Softswitch Switch Type In LERG? (essay182@gmail.com)
    Vonage and E911:  Customer Service Response (RodneyG)
    Foreign Listings, Again (Fred Atkinson)
    VOIP and PSTN to Single Handset (Marc Popek)
    Re: Have You Yet Started Using VOIP? (Dennis G. Rears)
    Re: Cardholders Kept in Dark After Breach (David Harmon)
    Re: Beginning of the End for AT&T (Tony P.)

Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
Internet.  All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and
the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other
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               ===========================

Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be
sold or given away without explicit written consent.  Chain letters,
viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome.

We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because
we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime.   Geoffrey Welsh

               ===========================

See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lisa Minter <lisa_minter2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Film, Music Companies Hail Grokster Ruling 
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:20 -0500


By Bob Tourtellotte

Hollywood studios and music companies hailed a ruling by the U.S
Supreme Court on Monday backing their position in a landmark copyright
case, saying it could spur the development of the Internet as a
commercial platform for distribuing movies and songs.

In a unanimous decision, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that
file-trading networks like Grokster and Morpheus can be held liable
when their users trade copyrighted material without permission,
clearing the way for a trial at a lower court.

Legal experts cautioned that it could still take years for the trial,
if it takes place, to work its way through a verdict and appeals.

But entertainment executives said the strength of the Supreme Court
decision in the case against Grokster could prompt file sharing
networks to begin using filtering software that would ensure songs and
videos downloaded across their networks are not illegal copies.

They also hope the Supreme Court decision will lead to greater use of
current, legal download services like Napster and iTunes for music or
Movielink and CinemaNow for films, industry representatives said.

"If the Supreme Court ... can come to a unanimous decision about this
case, surely the content industries like movies and music and the
high-tech sector can come together," said Dan Glickman, chief of the
Motion Picture Association of America.

"This decision will help spur that process," he told reporters.

An MPAA spokesman said the industry trade group would take a
"wait-and-see" approach to filing new lawsuits but would reserve the
right to file them.

Mitch Bainwol, chief of the Recording Industry Association of America,
said the groups also would not immediately approach the U.S. Congress
with proposals for new laws.

In recent years, content providers have sued computer networks that
offer software for downloading and trading songs and videos that have
been copied without paying a fee. Through the MPAA and the Recording
Industry Association of America, movie and music companies also sued
individuals and sought new laws to bar illegal downloads.

Content providers argue that illegal copying and swapping costs them
billions of dollars in lost revenues annually. Technology advocates
contend that shutting down file-sharing networks will stifle
innovation.

The Supreme Court decision means the lower court can go ahead with a
trial, and technology companies said they welcomed the chance to argue
their case in the lower court.

"We are confident it will be proven that Morpheus does not promote or
encourage copyright infringement," said Michael Weiss, who heads
StreamCast Networks Inc, which was also a defendant in the Grokster
case.

Jennifer Urban, a specialist in intellectual property law with the
University of Southern California, said a trial could take years if
fully tried and the outcome is appealed.

"This ruling says that if you actively promote (illegal downloading),
you might be liable. Now we have to find out exactly what that means,"
she said.

Attorney Carey Ramos, who had argued the case on appeal for
songwriters and publishers, said the Supreme Court's decision was so
strong that the lower court might bypass a full trial.


Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. 
 
NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the
daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at
http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new
articles daily.

------------------------------

From: Lisa Minter <lisa_minter2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Sony Eyes Grokster Version Despite Court Ruling 
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:54:32 -0500


By Derek Caney

Sony BMG's chief executive said on Monday the record label wants to
move forward with a legal version of the Grokster file sharing
service, despite a U.S. Supreme Court decision that holds the service
and others like it responsible for the copyright infringement of its
users.

The highest court in the United States set aside a lower court ruling
that Grokster and Morpheus, which allow millions of Internet users to
copy music and movies for free from each others' computers, were not
liable for infringement since the services could also be used for
legitimate purposes.

"I'm hopeful we will move forward with a legitimate version of
Grokster," Andy Lack, chief executive of Sony BMG Music Entertainment,
said in an interview. "It won't be called Grokster, and it certainly
won't be what Grokster is today," he added.

A Grokster spokesman said, "File sharing is not going away regardless
of today's developments so talks like this only make sense and
seemingly further validate its popularity in the marketplace."

Sony BMG's Lack said the ruling in the MGM vs. Grokster case would
open up opportunities for different technologies that use so called
peer-to-peer networks, which allow digital media files o be shared
between individual computer users without a centralized server.

"There's an opportunity to employ lots of different technologies that
legitimize these file sharing services," Lack said. "A lot of them
didn't want to come to the table until this ruling."

Asked if the ruling would lead to a rash of lawsuits against
peer-to-peer networks, he said, "If I were a lawyer representing those
clearly illegal services, I'd be advising my clients either make a
dramatic change in the way those companies are doing business or get
out of business."

Lack said the most striking aspects of the decision were that it was
unanimous and transparent. "Everyone on both sides of the debate -- be
it content companies or Grokster -- feared there would be no
clarity. The most challenging concern is that the decision would be
open to interpretation.  This decision pre-empts that kind of debate."

Sony BMG, home to such artists as Bruce Springsteen and Britney
Spears, is working with several other technology companies to create a
legal file sharing network.

One such company, Snocap, makes software that can block unauthorized
songs from being copied through peer-to-peer services. The technology
is the latest venture of Shawn Fanning, who created Napster, the
grandfather of all peer-to-peer sites.

Sony BMG is also working with Mashboxx, a peer-to-peer network that
offers authorized songs for download. Its chief executive, Wayne
Rosso, is a founder of Grokster.

Sony BMG is a 50-50 joint venture between Japan's Sony Corp. and 
Germany's Bertelsmann AG.

Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited.

NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the
daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at
http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new
articles daily.



[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Did I read correctly earlier today that
the Supreme Court has stated even techologies for which legitimate
uses are available are not excused from lawsuits if they (the
technologies) are misused?  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Lisa Minter <lisa_minter2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ex-Enron Internet Chief Describes Losing Power
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:55:57 -0500


By Mark Babineck

The former Oregon-based co-chief executive of Enron Corp.'s broadband
unit watched helplessly as the Houston home office gradually assumed
control and shaped the division, he said on Monday in his fraud and
conspiracy trial.

Joseph Hirko, under questioning by his defense lawyer that began last
week, explained how Enron started taking greater control of Enron
Communications Inc. (ECI) in 1999, first by appointing Enron insider
Kenneth Rice to be his co-CEO.

By the end of 1999, most of ECI's leadership roles had been filled by
people from Houston-based Enron Corp.

"(Rice) brought in new people and new departments as well," Hirko
said.

Hirko, along with former Internet unit executives Rex Shelby, Scott
Yeager, Kevin Howard and Michael Krautz, is on trial for conspiracy
and fraud.  Hirko, Shelby and Yeager also are accused of insider
trading and money laundering.

All five men have pleaded innocent.

Rice was a fellow co-defendant until he entered into a plea agreement
and testified against his former co-workers, saying they conspired to
illegally promote the broadband division even though they knew it
could not back up their promises.

On cross-examination Monday afternoon, prosecutor Ben Campbell pressed
Hirko about a scathing January 2000 analysis of the unit's network
security that Rice testified was a sign "the network was in disarray."

Hirko dismissed the appraisal, saying the problems were limited and he
was told at the time they were being addressed.

Campbell later showed jurors several slides Hirko used in 1999
presentations that implied many of ECI's capabilities were
operational. Hirko disputed the characterization, saying his
overlaying oral descriptions of the business were accurate.

Hirko told jurors he felt his power diminishing in 2000 and he
eventually was forced out of the company by Rice and Enron Chief
Operating Officer Jeffrey Skilling, who went on to be corporate CEO
and stands charged in a separate indictment.

Skilling has pleaded innocent and awaits trial next year.

According to Hirko, Skilling said Hirko needed to move from Portland,
Oregon, to Houston to remain atop of the unit, which by mid-2000 was
called Enron Broadband Services (EBS).

Hirko refused, citing a contract clause that called for him to remain
in Portland with his adolescent son.

"(Skilling) said, 'Frankly, I think the reason you didn't want to move
is stupid,"' Hirko said.

Ultimately, Hirko said he agreed to commute to Houston on weekdays,
but it was too late. Skilling appointed Rice to lead EBS in July 2000
and "involuntarily terminated" Hirko.

Hirko quoted Skilling as saying: "I've decided to go with Ken. I'm
more confident he'll build the business I want."

EBS imploded about a year later. Enron Corp. declared bankruptcy in
December 2001.

Nevertheless, Hirko told jurors he always believed in the unit and
even held onto between $8 million and $9 million in Enron stock that
ultimately became worthless.

"I was very proud of what the company and the people accomplished,"
Hirko said. "This was probably the most exciting time of my career."

Lawyers estimated the trial, which began in April and originally was
forecast to be winding down by now, probably would go until mid-July.

Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited.

NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the
daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at
http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new
articles daily.

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: 50 Year Unisys Employee Retires
Date: 27 Jun 2005 13:44:41 -0700


The Philadelphia Inquirer did a feature article on a man, age 68, who
was retiring from Unisys after 50 years of service.  (He started with
Unisys precedessor Burroughs).

It's extremely rare today for someone to work 50 years for the same
corporation.  In 1986 Unisys had 123,000 employees, now it has 36,400.
Only 15% of Americans 65 and over are still working and the average
person retiring today has been with his employer 10 years, not 50.

The man, Bill Brown, started out with Burroughs in 1955 as an errand
boy in Detroit.  He went to college at night then designed adding
machine parts -- it took two weeks for two men to design the curves
for a cam, then computers cut the time to 18 hours.

After Burroughs and Univac merged he moved to Blue Bell PA.  He said
the first 35 years were a lot of fun, but the last 15 were tougher
with the changes.

In the future, more workers will have to retire later because they
won't be able to afford to stop.

(for full article see www.philly.com "50 years at one firm").

Before divesture there were a great many long-time employees in the
Bell System.  Probably quite a few 50 year ones who perhaps started
while in high school and stayed with the company their whole working
life, or kept working past 65.

Now seniority means nothing.  I heard Verizon laid off a group of long
time employees without regard to seniority-- they just shut down a
particular sub-unit and fired everyone in it; many had started when it
was still Bell Telephone.  Likewise AT&T let many long time employees
go.

I know some consultants who have made a very great deal of money being
hired to clean up the mess companies made after doing the above.  They
think their only eliminating 'fat' by these mass layoffs, but they're
actually getting rid of critically needed muscle.  It hits the news
when sales drop dramatically and consumer groups file lawsuits over
horrendus service.

How stupid are the managers who come up with and authorize these
actions?  All they do is lose business; they don't save any money at
all.  Were the managers so damn cynical they thought the whole
workforce was playing computer games or looking at porn all day long?

Unlike government, generally the idiotic miskakes of the private
sector -- that ruin people's lives by mass firings -- aren't widely
reported in the media.  The stock market seems to applaud such moves.



[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: One important reason companies do not
keep around 40-50 year employees any longer is because that employee's
benefits package is usually so extravagant. For example, I recall one
fellow who had worked for Standard Oil more than twenty years back in
the 1960's, when I was there.  Working there that long, he was
entitled to five weeks paid vacation every year, and first choice of
the available times for vacation. He _always_ managed to parlay that
five week vacation into _six_ weeks by scheduling his vacation times
around weeks which had holidays in them, which entitled him to an
extra vacacation day. For example, vacation during the week which
contained Memorial Day, also the week which contained Independence Day
and Labor Day got him _three extra days_ right there. So he would then
take those three extra days vacation and either use them for the
Monday <-> Wednesday of Thanksgiving Week when the entire office got
two days (Thursday and Friday) off anyway. Or, depending on how the
calendar worked out that year, maybe he would take those three days
during Christmas/New Years week. 

Needless to say, Standard Oil got quite annoyed at having to legally
pay him for not being there for large gaps of time. Eventually, they
had a whole bunch of people in that situation and of course, if you
can find an excuse for letting the person go, then you also have to
pay them for the _company's share_ of their 401-K plan or whatever,
_plus_ their severance pay, _plus_ their pension, etc. And there is
absolutely no reason a good supervisor cannot find an excuse -- _any_
lawful excuse will do, to can you if they wish to do so. That is one
reason most companies do not like to have employees around that long;
to their way of thinking, the person has gotten just to expensive for
them. 

And ditto with the telephone company over the years. I recall a
complaint I heard from a couple of very old, long term 'inside plant'
technicians who got laid off by Illinois Bell just a week or two prior
to some milestone for them (such as maybe reaching the point they were
entitled to that very coveted fifth week of vacation each year). This
was right around the time Wabash was cutting over to ESS, in 1974 or
thereabouts. They both said Bell was extremely secretive about the new
system. Although they both, by virtue of their longevity, had the run
of the whole inside plant, the frames, etc, Bell kept the area where
the computers for ESS were located totally 'off limits' with locked
doors, to most of the older guys. "The only guys allowed to go in that
area were the real young smart-alecks who knew something about
computers. Those of us who knew nothing about computers were _not_
allowed to go in that area at all."  PAT]

------------------------------

Subject: G3 for Dialup Users
From: Patrick Townson <ptownson@telecom-digest.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:33:38 -0300


There have been some commercials on television lately I do not 
understand at all. The announcer says, 'first there was dial up,
then there was accelerated dial up, now there is G3, which is
about the fastest you can go _without_ being on DSL or cable.'

Exactly what is G3 for dialup users?  If I decided my cable internet
was too expensive, and decided to resort to 'G3 for dialup' what
would I get different than what I have now?

PAT

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that,
you've got it made. -Groucho Marx (1890-1977)

------------------------------

From: essay182@gmail.com
Subject: Softswitch Switch Type In LERG?
Date: 27 Jun 2005 15:50:10 -0700


I remember seeing that a lot of Verizon end offices in California were
being upgraded from DMS switches to the new Nortel Succession Soft
Switches. I was just curious to what the "Equipment Type" listing for
these packet based switches is in LERG now.

If its any help, I think "MTVRWAXXDS1" was the first of these Nortel
Succession Soft Switches deployed by Verizon. Thanks!

------------------------------

From: RodneyG <rodneyg@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Vonage and E911:  Customer Service Response
Date: 27 Jun 2005 18:56:08 -0700


I wrote to Vonage Customer Service today (I am a customer) and told
them I found out that another VoIP provider (Time-Warner RoadRunner)
in my city (Charlotte, NC) could provide me with true E911.  I asked
why Vonage could not.  I further asked when I could expect true E911
from Vonage.

Below is the response, a direct quotation.  I admit I haven't been
following all the twists and turns 100%, but isn't this reply a bit of
a stretch (or worse) from what we know?  Or did I miss something?

Thanks,

rodney

  ---------- begin response from Vonage Customer Service ----------

Dear customer,


In response to your email, we are supposed to be E911 compliant by the
end of the summer.

I hope I have answered your question and thank you for contacting
customer care.

Sincerely,

Kristen

  ---------- end response from Vonage Customer Service ----------


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That was their entire response? I guess
technically, they are correct. FCC gave them all 90 days to comply, as
of mid-May. So mid-June (1), mid-July (2) and mid-August (3) gets us
to 90 days, around to approximatly the end of the summer. You'd think
that Kristen might have elaborated on it just a little; but who knows,
maybe the bosses told Kristen to avoid any conversations with
customers on the topic while they (the bosses) try to worm their way
into an extension of time, either formally or informally. Maybe they
told Kristen to be most careful about saying anything which could be
construed as a 'promise' or a 'commitment'. PAT]

------------------------------

From: Fred Atkinson <fatkinson@mishmash.com>
Subject: Foreign Listings Again
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:30:15 -0400


Well,

Some of you may remember that last year (when I switched over to VOIP)
that I went round and round with Bellsouth trying to get my VOIP
number listed with directory assistance.

Bellsouth doesn't properly inform their CSRs that they do list numbers
with directory assistance and in the phone book for phones that are
not provided by Bellsouth.  It is called a foreign listing.  They
create what is called a special account to bill you for it.  Bellsouth
charges me $2.20 per month and bill it annually.  I understand that
the rate varies depending upon the call center that you are listed in.

To refresh memories and inform those who are just now hearing about
this, Bellsouth kept telling me they were transfering me to 'someone
who could help me' and then transfered me blindly back into the queue.
I went through person after person who couldn't help me.  Once I went
through fifteen people and still couldn't get it done.  Some of them
had the nerve to tell me it couldn't be done.  I knew that wasn't
true.

So, I escalated to the South Carolina Public Service Commission.  I
was very promptly contacted by someone at Bellsouth who immediately
took my information and got my number listed in directory assistance.
It's been listed with directory assistance for over a year now.  Call
directory assistance and ask for Fred Atkinson in Columbia, SC and you
will get my Vonage number.  Positive proof.

Well, I just accepted a position in western North Carolina.  I will be
living in a small city called Sylva, NC.  As Vonage doesn't provide
service there, I had to go with one of three alternate VOIP providers.
I chose a company called Voicepulse.  Even though I haven't moved into
the house I've rented up there yet, I've already got my telephone
service and my phone number for the Sylva area.

The local provider is Verizon.  I had corresponded with their customer
service via email.  They had told me that it was no problem to get my number
listed as soon as I had it.  They even quoted the rate for it (about $1.10
per month billed annually).

After I got my Voicepulse number, I emailed them with the information
they said they needed.  They didn't answer, and didn't answer, and
didn't answer.  So I called their customer service number to get help.
Several of them told me it couldn't be done.  I insisted upon speaking
to someone else.  Unlike Bellsouth (who blindly transfers you to
someone else who can't help you), Verizon puts you on music on hold
and just leaves you there.  After fifteen to thirty minutes, you
figure you've been completely forgotten about and hang up and call
back.

After a couple of days of futility, I called the North Carolina PSC.
They said they'd call Verizon and get this done for me.  While
waiting, I continued to try to get through to the customer service
number.

After one more customer service person incorrectly told me that it
couldn't be done, I began to get a little upset.  Turns out a
supervisor was monitoring the call.  She broke in and told me that she
could help me.  She took my information and said an order taker would
call me in a few minutes to verify the information and give me an
order number.  Surprisingly, it actually happened.

A few hours later, I got a call from a person that was with what I
believe she called Verizon complaint investigation.  I told her that I had
finally gotten someone to take the order and gave her the order number
asking that she make sure it actually got done.  She did and called me back
saying it was in the system and finalized.  I thanked her for calling.

I called directory assistance this morning and asked for Fred Atkinson
in Sylva, North Carolina.  Sure enough, they gave me my Voicepulse
telephone number.

It seems ridiculous that one should have to go through regulatory
channels to get a simple telephone listing done.  And it doesn't seem
to matter which phone company you go to for this.

However, if anyone here is trying to do that with either Verizon or
Bellsouth, they can refer to my foreign residential listings when they
tell you it 'can't be done'.  Short of that, call the appropriate
state PSC for help.

    <sigh>.


Fred Atkinson

------------------------------

From: Marc Popek <LVMarc@att.net>
Subject: VOIP and PSTN Many Line to Single Handset Answering Machine; Fax
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 03:03:13 GMT
Organization: AT&T Worldnet


There is a simple automatic switching device combine-a-line that
routes PSTN and VOIP to a single line handset, answering machine, Fax,
etc. This might work.

Marco

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5785155151&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

------------------------------

From: Dennis G. Rears <drears@runningpagespam.org.lga.highwinds-media.com>
Subject: Re: Have You Yet Started Using VOIP?
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:57:45 -0400
Organization: Optimum Online


TELECOM Digest Editor <ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message 
news:telecom24.290.4@telecom-digest.org:

> Although many netters have tested out VOIP-style telephones there are
> some guys who have not yet gotten their VOIP adapters and experimented
> with this new method for making telephone calls. I just noticed that I
> have not explained the Vonage system in detail for quite a while here,
> so wanted to give the late-comers a chance to look into the program.
> If you would like an e-coupon good for a month of free service from
> Vonage, one of the premier VOIP services, please let me know.  If
> you like the plans you see offered at http://vonage.com then send me
> email and ask for an e-coupon. You'll get a month of free service in
> the process of signing up via this Digest.  Send me email at
> ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu  and ask for your free month of Vonage.

Hi Pat:

I just want to put in a good word for Vonage.  I got it in December
and I love it.  I have saved over $300 since I got it.  There are some
initial problems with getting your number transferred over, however,
this is not due to Vonage but the LECs.  I do international calling
especially to Australia.  Unlike the long distance companies they do
not charge you exorbitant rates because you are not on a international
long distance plan.  There have been complaints about the 911 service
but the complaints are unwarranted.  You just go to the website and
give them your correct address.  Since Vonage is centered in NJ I have
to pay all the taxes still my bill is less than $29 a month inclusive
of taxes and everything else.  I love the fact that when I go on
travel I can forward to my cell phone.  If you do go to Vonage, please
sign up via this digest/newsgroup.  It helps to pay the bills.

Dennis

It's only been a couple of weeks since I last posted as opposed to a decade 
for my previous post.   Thanks for remembering me.  It is through this 
digest that I got my interest stoked in telephony.



[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You know, and I know it is about that
simple to sign up with Vonage and get _reasonable_ 911 service, even
if not perfect, as in 'e-911'. And although there were some problems
in general with VOIP sound quality (due to limits on bandwidth in the
beginning, it has gotten much better in recent months).  I still have
Vonage e-coupons available for anyone who wants a month of free Vonage
service. Just write me and ask for one, ptownson@massis.lcs.mit.edu
and you will have it back in email a day or two later.

And I notice it did not take you another decade to write to me again,
and for that I thank you!  But you never did tell me if you were still
in the Milwaukee area, nor whatever happened to your newsgroup/Digest.
PAT]  

------------------------------

From: David Harmon <source@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cardholders Kept in Dark After Breach
Organization: This space inadvertently left blank.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 03:02:26 GMT


On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:06:01 -0400 in comp.dcom.telecom, TELECOM
Digest Editor noted in response to mc <mc_no_spam@uga.edu>:

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: One problem with your list of
> requirements is that sometimes, in a family, one member of the family
> -- let's say the husband for example -- likes to use the net to look
> at some, well, 'perverted' stuff and charge his viewing of same to the
> family credit card.

I guess that shortly after the credit card companies are required to
track and reproduce all that stuff we will see the news report on how
some security breach disclosed details of the perverted buying habits
of forty million customers.

------------------------------

From: Tony P. <kd1s@nospamplease.cox.reallynospam.net>
Subject: Re: Beginning of the End for AT&T
Organization: ATCC
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:48:37 -0400


In article <telecom24.295.17@telecom-digest.org>, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com 
says:

> Too bad nobody builds telephone sets the way Western Electric used to.
> (I have had good service from one Panasonic set and also their
> answering machines, but are they still in the phone business?  I don't
> seem to see any of their traditional consumer electronic products as I
> used to.)

There are several people who have huge collections of older 500 and
2500 sets. They peddle them out at $25 to $50 a pop.



[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Just think ... 500/2500 sets used to be
as common (or more so) than Western Union clocks, and just as easy to
come by ... walk in an office, walk out with one or two. Now clocks,
as well as Genuine Bell telephones are getting quite hard to come by,
and the people who sell them (for a slight fortune) are quite willing
to pick your pockets in the process. I wish I could get one or two of
the 2500 phones ...  :(   PAT]

------------------------------


TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and
other forums.  It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the
moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.

TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational
service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents
of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in
some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work
and that of the original author.

Contact information:    Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest
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*************************************************************************
*   TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from                  *
*   Judith Oppenheimer, President of ICB Inc. and purveyor of accurate  *
*   800 & Dot Com News, Intelligence, Analysis, and Consulting.         *
*   http://ICBTollFree.com, http://1800TheExpert.com                    *
*   Views expressed herein should not be construed as representing      *
*   views of Judith Oppenheimer or ICB Inc.                             *
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Copyright 2004 ICB, Inc. and TELECOM Digest. All rights reserved.
Our attorney is Bill Levant, of Blue Bell, PA.

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Visit http://www.mstm.okstate.edu and take the next step in your
career with a Master of Science in Telecommunications Management
(MSTM) degree from Oklahoma State University (OSU). This 35
credit-hour interdisciplinary program is designed to give you the
skills necessary to manage telecommunications networks, including
data, video, and voice networks.

The MSTM degree draws on the expertise of the OSU's College
of Business Administration; the College of Arts and Sciences; and the
College of Engineering, Architecture and Technology. The program has
state-of-the-art lab facilities on the Stillwater and Tulsa campus
offering hands-on learning to enhance the program curriculum.  Classes
are available in Stillwater, Tulsa, or through distance learning.

Please contact Jay Boyington for additional information at
405-744-9000, mstm-osu@okstate.edu, or visit the MSTM web site at
http://www.mstm.okstate.edu

              ************************

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Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as
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Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing
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All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the
author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only
and messages should not be considered any official expression by the
organization.

End of TELECOM Digest V24 #297
******************************

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